TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Details of international Foosball events
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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:29 pm

Some toss pot who most people know as 'that weirdo over there'.

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Steviola » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:45 pm

My flight details:

Fri 26 Apr 09:50 London, Heathrow 12:30 Frankfurt LH903
Mon 29 Apr 15:05 Frankfurt 15:45 London, Heathrow

Flying out Friday returning Monday, Lufthansa, £103. Anyone else getting this?

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Jody » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:14 pm

Sarah and I are booked on the following flights. :)

Fri 26 Apr 09:15 Birmingham 11:55 Frankfurt LH953 1h40
Mon 29 Apr 12:00 Frankfurt 12:35 Birmingham LH954 1h35

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Mase
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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Mase » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:59 pm

ALL PRO MASTERS READ BELOW!

Mary emailed me asking my opinion on how pro masters should be treated. Please see my response and her question.

Hi,

I would have agreed initially but after you made the statement of how people will be ranked (based on their ITSF ranking) they have gone and purchased flights and paid for hotel rooms.

It would be a very unpopular decision to go back on this. It wont affect me as I'll still be an amateur im just thinking about my friends over here.

Regards,

Ben

.....

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Michelle Moore <ifpprotourinfo(at sign removed)gmail.com> wrote:

Ben, I have to say any promaster ranked players can not play amateur at this event, do you think that would be right?

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Boris » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:38 pm

That is probably fair enough if applied to all PMs in the BFA list, not just the Brits

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Jude » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:56 pm

Boris wrote:That is probably fair enough if applied to all PMs in the BFA list, not just the Brits
So Shovie's still a rookie then ?

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Mase » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:57 pm

Hang on Boris,

That WOULD have been fair but certainly is not not. Promoters have to stick to their words. People have paid for hotels and flights.


Regards,

Mase

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Mike A » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:11 pm

Allowing UK promasters into an amateur event on a familiar table should not be encouraged. This would be really unfair for the genuine amateurs and would be detrimental to the grass roots of the game.

Perhaps the BFA grass roots champion would like to make a statement about this?

Steve?

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Teeb » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:15 pm

I think it would be farcical to allow uk pm's into an amateur event abroad. Not only would it spoil the event for everybody else but may also affect the prospects for future uk players travelling overseas who may be genuine amateurs.

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Teeb » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:15 pm

On second thoughts, if Steve is the pm in question it should probably be fine

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Boris » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:45 pm

The 'unfamiliar table' argument may be one thing in a monoculture like the USA where there is effectively only one table style - albeit recently with competing manufacturers. In Europe players are used to adapting to different styles almost on a weekly basis. Our rankings system takes account of a players atatus in ITSF and the principal international ranking systems for german-style tables (p4p) - bonzini (ffft) - garlando (igr) and tornado/warrior/fireball (ifp) and as such is probably the best available list for assessing the relative rank of European players when determining eligibility criteria. Our system owes a lot in ancestry to the Europens Tornado Rankings which could be considered as a granparent to the current list and which the current list superceded when our table-specific rankings were integrated a few years ago.

Yes it is unfair for UK PMs to compete as rookies or amateurs particularly if Tornado specialists - its called sandbagging!

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Happyham » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:04 am

Its pretty sad if any UK pro master plays amateur events in a European tournament. Especially on a table he/she is very familiar with!

Its obvious that the UK standard is not as high as that of the USA, or maybe Germany. It doesnt justify putting a UK pro master with 8 years experience in an amateur field. Its sandbagging for sure.

When Alex went in 2009 to Vegas, he played Amateur events because no one else in the UK (outside of Rob) had ever done anything in the US. He played am based on Rob and myself's assessment that he was a high amateur. Since then, all the UK pro masters have improved and there are a number of UK players rated expert on Mary's list now. We know more about where we stand internationally. No more 'everyone except Rob plays as a rookie' stuff.

The likes of Rob Davey and Mike Amsden are rated expert whilst Steve is trying to play amateur? I bet Steve would fancy his chances against either Mike or Rob D in singles or doubles. I get that its a way to make the trip cheaper, but I'm also pretty sure that Steve knows he's better than the amateur level.

If I was Mary, I would find it a lot easier to let Steve down than explain to a whole field of real amateur players why someone of Steve's level was allowed to play their event in the first place.

This harms the rankings of other travelling UK players in the future coming over. Potentially being auto bumped to expert, or even pro thinking that we are all just a bunch of sandbaggers.
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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Steviola » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:29 am

What is this witch hunt? Yeah it's all a bit funny for some of the wind up merchants on here but to me this is a matter of money and jealousy.

I've paid for flights and soon to be hotel (therefore committing to paying for entry) based on me being ranked amateur for this tournament, and now you lot are determined to change that? Is it your money you've just committed? No.I have also arranged partners - are they to be let down as well because of your bitching? No. So as a consequence of what you are trying to do is make me pay yet more money for a tournament I wouldn't go to in the first place and have to let down other people (who are also financially committed) in the process. It's at this point where this discussion is no longer your business. But hey, let's tackle the irrelevant points to keep the wind up guys happy (and make Britfoos more interesting eh?):

Familiarity? The last Tornado tournament we had was in June 2011. I ran that one, and I don't remember the last Tornado tournament I went to just as a player.

When Alex and Mike went to Leonhart WCS last year as ROOKIES did anyone complain then? No. Despite them clearly NOT being Rookies (they came 2nd and could've/should've won it). Mike did you think about the poor genuine German rookies who you were so horribly going to stamp all over before you entered that event? So Mike is in no position to complain. When Alex went to Vegas Joe had already made a mark in Expert/Pro events yet Alex was allowed to go as an Amateur (and finish 7th in OS!!!) - I remember hearing something about foreign players being ranked Amateur at their first IFP tournament. If that's still the case I would rather have that in Vegas than Frankfurt!

The reality is most of you are just peeved that I have apparently got a bit lucky (for once), in what is shaping up to be a great looking tournament. And anyway, if Mary is using the ITSF ranks for everyone then there are DEFINITELY going to be plenty of under ranked players from all over Europe like all the good German Tornado and p4p players that don't play ITSF events (you've all conveniently forgot that have you?) making the "Amateur" event a tough field, whether I'm in it or not. If all the other European countries are, then why are you trying to stop your fellow countryman having a shot as well? So there'll be no need to explain to them Joseph, or if there is it probably wont be because of me. There isn't going to be an Amateur field at this event!

Boris you're referring to the Euro Tornado rankings we used to use? Really? The same ranking list that allowed Tom, Rob Davey etc to win Rookie events whilst winning Open events IN THE UK? For 1-2 YEARS? Right...

There is a kink in the system, I'm potentially taking advantage of it. Just like our yo-yo players here in the UK on that Semi Pro/Pro boundary. Keep calm, it will all be fine. As Tom says it's only me after all, I'll probably come 7th.

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Teeb » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:53 am

Steviola wrote:What is this witch hunt? Yeah it's all a bit funny for some of the wind up merchants on here but to me this is a matter of money and jealousy.

I've paid for flights and soon to be hotel (therefore committing to paying for entry) based on me being ranked amateur for this tournament, and now you lot are determined to change that? Is it your money you've just committed? No.I have also arranged partners - are they to be let down as well because of your bitching? No. So as a consequence of what you are trying to do is make me pay yet more money for a tournament I wouldn't go to in the first place and have to let down other people (who are also financially committed) in the process. It's at this point where this discussion is no longer your business. But hey, let's tackle the irrelevant points to keep the wind up guys happy (and make Britfoos more interesting eh?):

Familiarity? The last Tornado tournament we had was in June 2011. I ran that one, and I don't remember the last Tornado tournament I went to just as a player.

When Alex and Mike went to Leonhart WCS last year as ROOKIES did anyone complain then? No. Despite them clearly NOT being Rookies (they came 2nd and could've/should've won it). Mike did you think about the poor genuine German rookies who you were so horribly going to stamp all over before you entered that event? So Mike is in no position to complain. When Alex went to Vegas Joe had already made a mark in Expert/Pro events yet Alex was allowed to go as an Amateur (and finish 7th in OS!!!) - I remember hearing something about foreign players being ranked Amateur at their first IFP tournament. If that's still the case I would rather have that in Vegas than Frankfurt!

The reality is most of you are just peeved that I have apparently got a bit lucky (for once), in what is shaping up to be a great looking tournament. And anyway, if Mary is using the ITSF ranks for everyone then there are DEFINITELY going to be plenty of under ranked players from all over Europe like all the good German Tornado and p4p players that don't play ITSF events (you've all conveniently forgot that have you?) making the "Amateur" event a tough field, whether I'm in it or not. If all the other European countries are, then why are you trying to stop your fellow countryman having a shot as well? So there'll be no need to explain to them Joseph, or if there is it probably wont be because of me. There isn't going to be an Amateur field at this event!

Boris you're referring to the Euro Tornado rankings we used to use? Really? The same ranking list that allowed Tom, Rob Davey etc to win Rookie events whilst winning Open events IN THE UK? For 1-2 YEARS? Right...

There is a kink in the system, I'm potentially taking advantage of it. Just like our yo-yo players here in the UK on that Semi Pro/Pro boundary. Keep calm, it will all be fine. As Tom says it's only me after all, I'll probably come 7th.
Is that your manifesto for chairman?

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Steviola » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:12 pm

For you, yes :)

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Rob Davey » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:48 pm

I can see that punch and run technique making a comeback!!!!!

Rob

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Steviola » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:59 pm

And there's another Burdett on the way...

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Rob Davey » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:21 pm

i

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Teeb » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:23 am

Rob Davey wrote:I can see that punch and run technique making a comeback!!!!!

Rob
I think that's how she got pregnant

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Re: TORNADO EUROPEAN OPEN GERMANY FLYER

Post by Boris » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:07 am

My post wasn't about you Steve - my hest rookie result in Germany 3rd RS in 99 GO was when I'd just turned SP in the UK. Any table-specific ranking system will throw up anomalies - like shen Shovo got beaten in th GWorld RS final by a german PM. That is the precise reason why our system was developed in the UK and why if Mary based her rankings on our system epsecially for non-UK players (e.g. Rankng one level lower) she would not be far wrong and the better players would be more appropriately ranked and rookies would be rookies!

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