Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

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Mase
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Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Mase » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:42 am

Dear All,

Following a late night conversation with Ed Geer the below has been settled upon. It was originally suggested that all players from the UK ranked Beginner to SP would start at Semi Pro not being allowed to enter No Pro events and that all other players would come over at their UK rank.

The following has been agreed by Ed as the VIFA representative.

UK players will be honoured by their rank on the Domestic Tornado rankings list. This list needs to be submitted by 29th August as do all Pre Reg applications. Pre Reg must be used to get discount and ranking agreed.
This means that our Ams can enter Am events there and our SP's can enter No Pro events also. In no way do i think this is as fair as it could be but its better than where the original stance stood. I am pleased for Alex and Joe for all they have won in America but we need to accept that these performances are ultimately why the harsh stance has been made.

The rules on existing UK players in the US rankings is still being decided. I have had it confirmed that Alex and Joe will be allowed to enter Pro despite being Pro Master here. The only issue here is our Pro Masters will go over as pro master and initially higher ranked than Joe and Alex. Ed confrimed that is players lost they would be down graded to pro for the next event.

Regards,

Mase
Last edited by Mase on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked.

Post by shovie » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:29 pm

Anyone wanting to go should put their case to Brian Elliot or Dave Courington. While Ed does do the administration of the VIFA rankings he doesn't have the final say.

We also have the option of changing our rankings (Rob = Pro-M, Pro-M = Pro, Pro= SP, SP = Am, Am = Beginner)

Alex

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Mase
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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked.

Post by Mase » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:28 pm

The following is the answer to, Where will existing players be ranked?

If they are in our system now they will remain at their current status unless they are ranked a pro in yours. If they are new to our system, they will be entered at your ranking. We are counting on you to inform us of any Pro ranked players that are in our system as Amateurs. We can not afford to allow a pro ranked player to play in Amateur events again. Can I ask you a favor? Can you please post the notice on as many European forums as possible. I am not familiar with the European online community but would like to get this info out to as many as possible.

I dont see what they are saying is unreasonable, considering all the "ams" that have won everything the last few years.

Mase

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked.

Post by shovie » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:00 pm

It's not unreasonable, but again they've left it pretty late. I don't know if anyone's booked flights yet but they may well have done. They should have made an announcement about the rankings as soon as they could after Vegas.

Alex

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked.

Post by Mase » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:10 pm

They should have correct, but to suggest we re rig our rankings isn't the best thing.

They are well within their right to say "all overseas players are pro" they had a strong stance to start with. Now they have slackened off a fair bit. Honouring existing rankings and allowing like for like entries for new players including allowing SP's to enter NoPro events which they were against to start with.

Mase

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Mase » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:31 pm


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shovie
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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by shovie » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:18 pm

They should have correct, but to suggest we re rig our rankings isn't the best thing.
It isn't rigging, it's bringing our rankings in line with their rankings.
They are well within their right to say "all overseas players are pro" they had a strong stance to start with. Now they have slackened off a fair bit.
Of course they can do what they like, but it'll mean fewer players from Europe attending (Although thinking about it they'd probably prefer this).
Honouring existing rankings and allowing like for like entries for new players including allowing SP's to enter NoPro events which they were against to start with.
This isn't a sentence.

Alex

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Steviola » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:31 pm

I like Alex's proposal. From my POV I almost certainly wont go to the Worlds in September but the HOFC next March is appealing (Vegas) but I would definitely not go if ranked Pro. Even being ranked Semi Pro would be difficult given the lack of local Tornado venues and tournaments i.e. practice but it would be feasible. Downgrading our rankings seems fine to me - if they can do what they want then we can do what we want so it's fair game.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Mase » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:52 pm

Do you think the wont notice? They will just be annoyed when they see that and then say all ukplayers are Pro.

If you guys want to do it then fine, go for it.

Mase

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:16 pm

If nothing else, my semi-pro trophies will seem all the more impressive.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by shovie » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:04 pm

It doesn't matter if they notice. We're perfectly within our rights to change the names of each ranking band. If we wanted we could name them after farm animals. Everyone knows our Pros lose to their amateurs so if we drop everyone down one bracket we're still screwing ourselves over.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by smokinhack » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:05 pm

shovie wrote:We're perfectly within our rights to change the names of each ranking band. If we wanted we could name them after farm animals.
Alex, I disagree.

This would not be a sensible system as it has been well documented that all farm animals are, in fact, equal, thereby making rankings classifications based on them totally void.

May I suggest as an alternative:

Beginner - Grass
Amatuer - Gazelle
Semi pro - Lion
Pro - Poacher
Pro master - Global Warming

It will feel strange at first and would require some minor adjustments to existing ranking ,lists and tournament flyers, but I'm sure after a year or so, people will wonder how we did it any other way.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Steviola » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:18 pm

lmao...yes Dave!

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Rob Atha » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:57 pm

is anyone else coming to this?

its the biggest tournament in the world and would be nice to send a team there.

There are direct flights to dallas from heathrow with BA for a good price. contact paul martin for more details.

Myself and ola will be going. Dave oats? martin? Bobby D? Dave Evans? Mase?

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Boris » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:03 pm

The US rankings are a total mish-mash, as Elo replaced a points-race system a few years ago. There used to be about 50x UK players in their system, excluding Rob, all were rookies except myself, Tich, Bruce J and Declan who were SP. Since then Joe and Alex have done well over there, but no-one else has ever consistently 'troubled the scorers'.

They would be justified in ranking all new overseas players as SP, mainly thanx to Alex, after all we do this and it seems to work OK, ideally they would incorporate all ITSF Tornado tournaments into their system, so performances in Germany, Japan, UAE etc would count, as would UK ITSF events such as the UK Masters, Hereford and Bristol. I think this should be the way we lobby the USTSA going forward.

Otherwise I will suggest the following starting points for UK/Irish players in our system:
Novice - Low Amateur (800)
Amateur - Mid-Amateur (900)
SP - High Amateur (1050)
Pro - Mid SP (1400)
Pro-M - High SP/Low Pro (1700/1800)

Given that they use Elo any overranked 'pros' would fall back to SP if they lose more matches than they win at their first US tournament.

I'd be happy to negotiate a solution with Ed Geer if someone e-mails me his contact details.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by davez » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:39 pm

From the flyer I received today:

International Players
Non North-American Players will not have to pay membership fees at this year’s tour events. We will honor a player's home federation ranking for new international players who pre-register prior to 21-August and provide their:
  • ITSF Federation Name
    Players ITSF License Number
    Home Federation Rank, Series or Classification
All international players must have an existing ITSF license number prior to registration. Obtain a license number through your home ITSF Federation. License numbers are provided to players by the ITSF at no cost through your home federation headquarters.

Preregister, or else...
Non North-american players must preregister by 21-AUGUST To re-ceive the international player's discount and to play in Amateur events (rating verification required). International players may en-ter events onsite, but will not receive the discounted rate and can-not participate in amateur events. Preregistration is encouraged

National Team Event Members
Outside of North America—package deal prices are:
Master—$350 Pro—$250 Semi-Pro $150 Amateur-$125
 Discount available to all international players that preregister by 21-AUGUST. Preregistration is encouraged

Equipment
This event will be played on Tornado Platinum Tour Edition tables these tables will be equipped with a 3-man goalie. Going forward with the 2010 season, tables in future ITSF international and World Championship series events will be equipped with a single-man goalie
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Steviola » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:46 pm

lol so not only will we be ranked higher but (in my case) i'd have to pay double the entry fee! idiots.

if anyone wants to go i suggest we put them down several ranks before they pre register.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by Sampson » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:47 am

Thursday night DYP final from the Tornado Worlds:

http://www.netfoos.tv/on_demand_free?ac ... sdp_26.flv

Tony shoots a push shot on the 3 really high percentage throughout until Tommy goes back and races him. Awesome match.

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by papafoos » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:24 pm

Online brackets
http://www.netfoos.com/fast/

DaveP & Martyn....You could have been within walking distance of the mall I stranded you in. :lol:

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Re: Tornado Worlds - How we will be ranked and FLYER

Post by davez » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:48 pm

Sampson wrote:Thursday night DYP final from the Tornado Worlds
Ahh nice....a 2 minute first game! Tony playing push and Tommy playing snake.. wtf? And Spirit in the final too. Winner Take All is a tough final to lose. I came "2nd" in one a couple of years back, with Chad Hanson as my partner and Rob Atha on the other side of the table...
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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