World Cup Team Selection

Details of international Foosball events
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Mogwai
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Post by Mogwai » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:50 pm

Joe wrote:

It makes no sense to get committee members, who perhaps don't have the knowledge that Rob has, to be granted some authority in a decision that they could potentially getting wrong.
Agree with this. But obviously I think the Committee should have to ratify a team selected by Rob - as this makes the process clear for now and the future.
This is the method currently employed and I think it works well. Everyone is happy Rob knows the best team and I think he is impartial.

However for the future we need a rigorous system hence why every time this comes along the committee should pick this captain who's role it is to pick the team and then ratify his selection. Not ratifying the captain's selection would probably never happen but provides a necessary fall back in case of situations such as disciplinary matters or ineligibility.

I'll setup the vote in the committee forum asking to maintain the status quo, as a few members are away at the moment expect a decision within a week or so.

With regards to guaranteeing attendance I agree that the only way to ensure this is to put down a bond. Exactly how we do this is a matter for discussion (do we expect reserves or people on a shortlist to pay for example, and when should the deadline for payment be?).

DZ is right, we will also be selecting fomr those who choose to make themselves available, this is why I think all those who go on the shortlist should pay in and if they aren't selected get their money back with any interest earned.

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shovie
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Post by shovie » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:29 pm

Jon knows, Chaz. Although I can't work out whether you're trying to be funny, or are just being stupid!

Rob to pick, but as Jon said he must make the effort to know as much as he can about the team he is picking.

Alex

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davez
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Post by davez » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:31 pm

I'm not sure that having to put down a bond is a good idea, for these reasons:

1) it will in general disincentivise good players who are ambivalent about going for whatever reason
2) it is disadvantageous to those who cannot afford to take the gamble
3) it won't prevent people pulling out when they simply have to

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shovie
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Post by shovie » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:33 pm

What do you suggest, Dave?

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davez
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Post by davez » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:11 pm

Shovie, I saw the bond idea and suggested that it might not be a good idea. I haven't studied the thread in enough detail to suggest anything positive. If you are serious about wanting my opinion I'll put the effort in and come back with something.

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Happyham
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Post by Happyham » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:12 pm

shovie wrote:
Rob to pick, but as Jon said he must make the effort to know as much as he can about the team he is picking.

Alex
Alex,

I think at the last world cup it was fair to say he was off a lot at tournies around the world etc so perhaps couldn't see everyones progress as well as the likes of me or you (who probably were at most tournies around then).  

This year Rob knows all the top players and has been to a lot of UK tournies, so I don't believe his judgement will be as scrutinized this time round, as it was last time round.
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shovie
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Post by shovie » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:44 pm

Hi Dave, I am serious.I look forward to a constructive reply.

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Mogwai
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Post by Mogwai » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:59 pm

davez wrote:I'm not sure that having to put down a bond is a good idea, for these reasons:

1) it will in general disincentivise good players who are ambivalent about going for whatever reason
Its meant to the most important event in the Table Football World Calender, the top players should not be ambivalent, if they are then they shouldn't be going!
davez wrote: 2) it is disadvantageous to those who cannot afford to take the gamble
If they can afford to shell out for a few days in France then they can afford the bond. If they can't make it they have saved money overall.
davez wrote: 3) it won't prevent people pulling out when they simply have to
True, but nothing else will either so the point is moot.

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Black Cloud
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Post by Black Cloud » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:20 pm

Just thought I'd better say I am unavailable on those dates.

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Boris
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Post by Boris » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:47 pm

ITSF wrote:
Men’s and Women’s World Cups

At the upcoming World Cup in Nantes, France, on January 8-11, 2009, there will be 2 separate events for Men’s and Women’s teams, with a maximum of 32 teams for each event.

The selection of the countries which will participate in the World Cup will be done through an Executive Committee’s vote, which will take into account the ITSF World Rankings of Nations and continental representation, as had been voted upon 2 years ago at the 2006 General Assembly in case there would not have been enough time to set up continental qualification tournaments before the next World Cup.

Number of players in a standard Men's team: 8 + 2 reserve players (minimum 6 men to make up a team)

Number of players in a standard Women's team: 6 + 2 reserve players (minimum 4 women to make up a team)

Each country is responsible for the selection of its national teams' members.

If a country has enough female players to make up a Women's team, then they can send both a Men-only team and a Women-only team to the Word Cup.

If there are not enough female players in a country to make up a Women's team, female players are allowed to be members of the Men's Team.

The deadline for confirming participation to the World Cup and the choice of the table for each team (the 2 teams from the same country can choose different tables) is September 30th, 2008.

Feel free to check the new World Cup section on our website, where new information will be posted on a regular basis.
http://www.table-soccer.org/worldcup/team.php

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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:23 pm

shovie wrote:Jon knows, Chaz. Although I can't work out whether you're trying to be funny, or are just being stupid!

Rob to pick, but as Jon said he must make the effort to know as much as he can about the team he is picking.

Alex
Bah no, I just misread his post rather horribly.
.

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davez
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Post by davez » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:04 pm

Mogwai wrote:
davez wrote:I'm not sure that having to put down a bond is a good idea, for these reasons:

1) it will in general disincentivise good players who are ambivalent about going for whatever reason
Its meant to the most important event in the Table Football World Calender, the top players should not be ambivalent, if they are then they shouldn't be going!
I think it would have been clearer if I'd said "it will in general disincentivise good players who are uncertain that they can go".

I mean isn't that the point of the bond, to discourage someone who has uncertainty? As I said elsewhere, I think it's probably better to keep the field as large as possible and exercise the options as late as possible.

Anyway, I'll read this thread in more detail later and suggest something.

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Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:15 pm

I'm pretty sure this bunch would give Rob Atha's selection a run for their money.

Men
Mike Amsden
Dave Bareham
Rob Davey
Paddy Grover
Dave Ziemann
Tich Degun
Kalsi

Women
Hannah Ramlee
Caroline Wong
Cath Brown

Hows this for a crazy idea?  If the trip has to be 100% funded by players, how about a world cup selection tournament, £50 per player entry fee, the total purse to be used to help with costs for the winning team, e.g. 30 entrants = £1500. Pressure play for a place in the squad at risk. Ok, loads of flaws, but just throwing another idea into the hat for funding a potentially expensive trip.

Bottom line and the main reason for this post - I hope this goes some way to ensure the debate properly continues regarding team selection as it's very important.............Rob just picking them is surely not the only option. The ITSF's meddling to now run a World Cup every year has IMHO taken the gloss off the tournament. They always said it would be every 4 years in line with proper soccer.

nb: sorry for glaring player omissions.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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Boris
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Post by Boris » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:09 pm

Martyn - read my last post!

There are separate mens and womens team events

We need a team of 8x men (with 2x reserves allowed)

And
We need a team of 6x women (with 2x reserves allowed)

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Happyham
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Post by Happyham » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:21 pm

I think it would be awesome if we could get a womens team together!

But realistically we would have to have ALL our women say they could play in order to make a team!

The women that could play are:
Jody
Mayya
Sarah
Hannah
Louise
Cath
Suki
Victoria Naylor
Sam Price
Jody Haddon
Louise Yates
Amy Brice
Vicki Murfin (Mase's better half)
Oh, and Caroline.

It would be awesome if it could happen tho!
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Post by shovie » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:24 pm

Pinday
Donna
Diane Blackwell

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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:43 pm

Happyham wrote:Louise Yates
*raises eyebrow*

Is this not Louise Austin?
.

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davez
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Post by davez » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:52 pm

Shovie, I have started to consider the Nantes "World Cup" team selection issue.

First, some relevant background info. Some of this is new this year.

a. There will be 2 teams one for men (8+2 reserve) and one for women (6+2 reserve).
b. We must have a minimum of 4 women to make a women's team.
c. If we have no women's team then women can play on the men's team.
d. The men's and women's teams play in two separate "World Cup" events.
e. The men choose their table type, and the women their table type.
f. Like last year, there will one extra qualifying team (called a wild card) in Mens Doubles & Womens Doubles
g. New this year, there will be one extra wild card for Junior Doubles and Senior Doubles
h. New this year, if we have 500 ITSF licensees we get one extra wild card in EACH singles category, i.e. Men, Women, Junior and Senior Singles.
i. There will be a new special event for wheelchair users, one player from each country, male/female any age.

Some immediate suggestions...

1. The women should have their own captain to manage, organise & select players/table.
2. The women should pick their captain.
3. As a matter of urgency we should increase our current 245 licensees to 500 before month end. This means we can send one extra player in Men, Women, Junior and Senior singles. I think this means registering new player names with the ITSF, and that it won't cost us anything.
4. If the BFA can announce an intention to meet the 500 licensee target then this could affect players decisions to attend UKC and even what table type they might pick, especially in the lower turnout or non-qualifying categories such Women, Junior & Senior.
5. BFA should approach appropriate disability groups to identify a wheelchair user who plays foos, to ensure that we have representation in this category.

Shovie, I did not expect to be saying these things at the beginning - I though I would be talking about team selection process. This is by no means the end of the story, and now that I'm thinking about it I'm sure I'll have suggestions on team selection as well.

But in fact I think that the issues above are more urgent and need to be addressed and resolved much earlier than team selection.

Dave

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Post by robmoss2k » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:11 am

I don't like the idea of a bond. Nantes is the sort of place you could drive to and camp at. Share a car between 4 of you and you can probably do it for less than whatever the bond would be.
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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:43 am

robmoss2k wrote:I don't like the idea of a bond. Nantes is the sort of place you could drive to and camp at. Share a car between 4 of you and you can probably do it for less than whatever the bond would be.
In the committee forum I had suggested the members fax us a copy of their ticket by a certain date. Even if you are driving as in your example above you could for example buy the "Le Shuttle" ticket in advance. Those sharing the lift may also have UK train tickets to whereever you're all meeting.

I think this also forces the player to think about their plans a little further in advance which in itself should lower the chance of pulling out.
.

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