Players 4 Players Open European Championship 2008

Details of international Foosball events
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Happyham
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Post by Happyham » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:12 pm

Also, the only way you will get better results at international tournies, is by going to more.  So sure you feel you have a grip on the uk game, and your now pro master... sure you will have to play in open events, but that in itself is a massive learning curve (or at least it should be if you are one to take things away from tournies) plus all the pickup games and tips u can source form top players if u ask them!  

I have obviously not been to an international tourny yet where I can only enter open events... but look at players from around the world who prolly only enter open events who perhaps overranked.  Im gona be careful who I say here, but, people like Charly Friessem.  Also, look at some of the top players around europe... the likes of Tim ludwig (juj and alex normally beat up on him pretty good...), the likes of pavol kovacik (Juj beat him on garlando, and we all know how terrible Juj is on garlando  :D ).  

Ok so maybe these are just one or to results... but to beat a top player you need ability no question, and I'm sure given more games against these people Juj and Alex would continue to do well.  Alex beating Jamal on garlando as well, Jamal doesnt just LET people win you know!

I think my main issue here is euros get a lot more table exposure to all the tables... so.... the pros over there ARE pros... where us pros will be cack on lechmacher.
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Happyham
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Post by Happyham » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:16 pm

Dave,

I think that the UK pros are not worthy of semi pro status in either the States, or on the continent.  

I think this is a completely different problem that I think sucks for us boys over here..

Just to reitterate (however u spell that), the pro masters 'problem', ISNT a problem!  We just need to go over there and show em whos boss instead of wanting 100's of games like rookies.... cmon, we only have open events here, whats so diff if we only have open events there??

If ya lost, you go back to more!  Just like UK tournies... the only difference, is the amount of money you spend to travel etc.
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Mogwai
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Post by Mogwai » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:24 pm

Happyham wrote:Dave,

I think that the UK pros are not worthy of semi pro status in either the States, or on the continent.  

I think this is a completely different problem that I think sucks for us boys over here..

Just to reitterate (however u spell that), the pro masters 'problem', ISNT a problem!  We just need to go over there and show em whos boss instead of wanting 100's of games like rookies.... cmon, we only have open events here, whats so diff if we only have open events there??

If ya lost, you go back to more!  Just like UK tournies... the only difference, is the amount of money you spend to travel etc.
I think the point is that the "UK Pro-Masters" should at least have semi-pro status not necessarily be rookies.

Also why would underranked "UK Pro-Masters", the very people that need to travel go to tournaments, go when they won't get a good run? If I was to travel 10 hours to get to a tournament (unlike the 3-4 hours max in the UK) I would want a few events to make up for this.

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Post by Steviola » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:56 pm

Luke Ashley almost beat Erik Quakilinsky once, so we can't be that bad.

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sparky
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Post by sparky » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:03 pm

Steviola wrote:Luke Ashley almost beat Erik Quakilinsky once, so we can't be that bad.
True fact. How did you know? :P

Luke

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Boris
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Post by Boris » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:03 pm

At last a UK player with the right attitude (Joe).  

I've been ranked SP in the USA since 2003, and have never been ranked rookie on the IGR.  Tom B and I were a shot (and a bad ref call) away from beating Fritsche & Mustafa in OD at Tulln last year which would have got us into the prize money and who knows where we might have finished.

The problem with playing rookie/sp and open events is that you end up concentrating on the lesser events and neglecting the Opens, where it matters, as it takes it out of you to go deep at all levels.

If I can finish within the top 48 in OS at the Garlando Worlds 3 years in a row (inc a 25th and a 17th), there is no reason why better players than me could not improve on this.  Why they have failed to do this is beyond me, but probably has a lot to do with the inferiority complex most UK players have when facing foreigners.

Having said that, there are players ranked PM who are clearly nowhere near that standard in international terms, and an upward revision of the PM threshold is an option under consideration.

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:11 pm

Joe has the right attitude, we can all argue we are over ranked.

When i was made SP on Garlando id never placed higher than 5th in an AM event, and felt annoyed. But now im SP im concetrating more and getting much better Open and SP finishes. I hope the same will be on Tornnado (SP due to 8 points i picked up at Cambridge Eurosoccer :roll: ). Im not overly happy but im thinking oh well i just need to practice more and try real hard.

If you play with an excuse int he back of your mind you will never perform.

Just cope guys. Practice hard and work at it. We already have it good at home by making foriegn players jump up a rank. We (british people in general) need to have a winning attitude not a "oh its not in my favour before we start attitude", why should it be. Letss be the underdog and fight for our wins, it tastes real good, and in 18 months we will deserve our pro and pro master rankings.

Im in favour of leaving it as it is and just getting on with our foos.

Mase

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Mogwai
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Post by Mogwai » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:30 pm

Right Attitude if you are almost there in skill...

but if you are grossly overranked then it is counter productive. Mase felt hard done by when he went SP, fair enough, he changed his attitude he worked hard and now feels like he can compete at that level and is given enough events in a tournament to concentrate on this.

Now how would he have felt if he had been made a Pro-Master from Amateur? Would he have worked so hard to compete if he got trashed in his 2-n-out^2 at every tournament? Who knows but its no fun travelling hours to a tournament to play just a few matches.

My personal feeling is that our best few Pro-masters can compete on the top stage, however I also feel the gulf between the PMs and Pros in this country is growing (by no means a bad thing). I think depending on table type our "Pros", which are highly populated by decent but not great players who've played in loads of tournaments and also inexperienced but on form players who've milked lots of bonus points from the former. This class of players are nowhere near that standard of those in the other major foosing Nations.

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:42 pm

Your're right Dave and you're wrong.

We have alot of Pro's but mostly old pro's.

The new pro's are movign up fast Steve, tom, nubbert, joe, dave b. all now PM on 1 or more table.

The old pro's who arent that great and tbh are JUST above SP are worthignton, carter and the like, this is not through lack of talent, its throguh lack of time.

What the new rankings will do is sort this much faster, we will end up with the new pro's moving up fast and old pro's trickling back down.

Mossy is a prime example/ hadnt won a coin toss since Walsall and new rankings dropped him down in bothTandG. Him and i have had some ok finishes 4th and 3rd in SP events and he will move back up slowly. He proved he was not a pro by geting poor finsihes in SP single events so has managed to have 3 garloando events as an SP. Now with some ok events OS and OD and SPD he will move back up. The new rankings will help this.

So my main bullet point here is Lets ALL try hard and not just think oh europeans are better.

Mase

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Post by Mike A » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:53 pm

This is not an attitude issue, this is an ability issue. UK Pro masters are quite simply no better than foreign semi pros, a few occasional good performances do not change this. It is results that count and apart from Rob Atha I cannot remember when any of our players did well at a foreign semi pro event, we simply struggle to compete at this level.

Quite simply:

UK Pro masters are not as good as US pros or pro-masters.
UK Pro Masters are not as good as European Pros or pro-masters.

The only comparable nation is Germany on Tornado, but this does not make our comparison with the general international table footballing community right.

Boris, like you say you have had the luxury of being ranked semi pro since 2003, you are now denying this to other UK pro masters who could benefit from the development opportunities open to a player at this level when they compete abroad.

Whilst you cannot concentrate as well as you may like when you enter a lot of events, you learn a hell of a lot. The pro masters who have done well are those who have benefitted from already being allowed to enter the lower ranked events, preventing future pro masters from doing this is simply wrong.

This policy is likely to result in future UK pro masters, who have not yet travelled into Europe, experiencing much slower development. They are likely to remain at an Amateur/Semi pro boundary level for much longer.
Last edited by Mike A on Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mike A
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Post by Mike A » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:56 pm

Mase, I admire the attitude, but it suffers from severe lack of understanding of the people you are talking about abroad.

Joe, you have already benefitted from being allowed to enter at Amateur level, denying this to other uk pros and some pro masters is plainly unfair and will be one reason why they will not be able to develop as quickly as yourself.

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:16 pm

Mike A wrote:Mase, I admire the attitude, but it suffers from severe lack of understanding of the people you are talking about abroad.
Crap Mike, patronising crap. Its nothing to do with those abroad its to do with poor attitude of 95% of people in UK society. 95% of people in the UK under the age of 30 think they should get everything for nothing and in this instance get a lower ranking.

Brian Harms and Chris Haddon, Martyn Harris and Dave Oates are all over that age and are all players who have gone to US and Europe played got beat and come home. Do they complain that the players are too good. Do they hell, they take it like gents and enjoy their time away. I dare say they will practice a little harder the next to have more chance. But they dont start touting we should get to enter lower events.

It seems like people are jealous that Joe got a shot, SO WHAT, lucky him. We need to worry about ourselves and stop finding excuses.

I lost to Indi and scott walding and they were gash,absolutely horrific, but i played worse, i couldnt pass and for first time that weekend i couldnt score. However I will try my hardest to not let it happen again but im not going to complain and make up excuses. If you lose, try harder and practice, if your still no better try more.

Mase

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Mike A
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Post by Mike A » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:26 pm

Mase wrote: Brian Harms and Chris Haddon, Martyn Harris and Dave Oates are all over that age and are all players who have gone to US and Europe played got beat and come home. Do they complain that the players are too good. Do they hell, they take it like gents and enjoy their time away. I dare say they will practice a little harder the next to have more chance. But they dont start touting we should get to enter lower events.
All these players enjoy entering Amateur events in the US  :roll: They have no cause for complaint. This is an example of your severe lack of understanding.
Mase wrote: It seems like people are jealous that Joe got a shot, SO WHAT, lucky him. We need to worry about ourselves and stop finding excuses.
Mase
I am in no way jealous of Joe, I got my chance to enter the lower category of events just like he did, but players who follow us abroad will not get that opportunity if they are a UK pro master.

It is not about taking something for nothing, it is about making events fair, at the moment they are not fair. Is it wrong to raise this as a concern? Of course not. Should people be advised that when things are not fair they should just shut up and hope for the best? Complete stupidity.

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:31 pm

Mike A wrote:
Mase wrote: Brian Harms and Chris Haddon, Martyn Harris and Dave Oates are all over that age and are all players who have gone to US and Europe played got beat and come home. Do they complain that the players are too good. Do they hell, they take it like gents and enjoy their time away. I dare say they will practice a little harder the next to have more chance. But they dont start touting we should get to enter lower events.
All these players enjoy entering Amateur events in the US  :roll: They have no cause for complaint. This is an example of your severe lack of understanding.
Your complete lack of undersatnding about my point, they dont complain even those these players are better. They get on with it. Its not like we are elevated when we go abroad as we do to all the guys that come here.

Mase

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Mike A
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Post by Mike A » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:40 pm

Mase wrote: Do they complain that the players are too good. Do they hell, they take it like gents and enjoy their time away. I dare say they will practice a little harder the next to have more chance. But they dont start touting we should get to enter lower events.
Mase
They don't complain because there aren't any lower events for them to enter because they are allowed to enter at the appropriate level.

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Post by Craig » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:03 pm

Mike,

You are clearly good enough to be ranked SP in either Europe or the US.

Stop whinging.   :roll:

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Mike A
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Post by Mike A » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:05 pm

Craig wrote:Mike,

You are clearly good enough to be ranked SP in either Europe or the US.

Stop whinging.   :roll:
Craig, I wholeheartedly agree, and believe I should be ranked semi pro.

Unfortunately I am going to be ranked pro master!

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Post by Famous Al » Tue May 20, 2008 5:59 pm

Surely Fred and Billy must have no room left for trophies by now  :shock:

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Post by Naked Snake » Tue May 20, 2008 7:51 pm

Famous Al wrote:Surely Fred and Billy must have no room left for trophies by now  :shock:
I still have Billy's 2005 Garlando SPS World Championship Trophy after he won six in Austria and couldn't take them all home!

Sometimes, I pretend it's mine.
Just Cup Them

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Post by Messiah » Tue May 20, 2008 8:19 pm

Naked Snake wrote:
Famous Al wrote:Surely Fred and Billy must have no room left for trophies by now  :shock:
I still have Billy's 2005 Garlando SPS World Championship Trophy after he won six in Austria and couldn't take them all home!

Sometimes, I pretend it's mine.
Lol.

Sometimes indeed.
Still going....

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