Temple bar in next year's league

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Graeme
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Temple bar in next year's league

Post by Graeme » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:10 am

What was the general opinion of the Temple players on how the Temple Bar team worked last year? I'm conscious of the fact that numerous times teams didn't turn up for games at Temple.

The problems are that:

1- There isn't a Tornado table that's easily accessible in central Oxford; consequently most players have never played on one before.

2- This is compounded by the fact that some/most of the Temple players are rather good.

3- The Temple Bar is a fairly long walk from lots of colleges.

Given that nothing much can be done about any of these I'm not optimistic about more teams turning up for games at the Temple next year.

I wanted the opinion of the players from last year about whether it was worth there being a Temple team. The current arrangement involves some sponsorship of OUTFC in exchange for (in theory) the increased popularity of the bar amongst students. Unfortunately since few teams are turning up for matches at Temple I doubt they're getting their money's worth, so to speak.

I haven't contacted the Temple management yet, just wanted to hear what players thought.
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Post by Pete F » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:34 am

Yeah, the number of cancelled matches is a problem particularly now the Temple is in the top division.  St Peter's simply won't travel to play an away match and plenty of other teams defaulted as well.  And once they have made the effort, only to be bummed on an unfamiliar table, they don't bother making the trip the next time around.

Temple Bar itself can't be making any money.  Barry the landlord is notoriously grumpy about the fact that foosers don't drink nearly as much as his darts team, and the student visitors on the away teams who have bothered to turn up usually haven't exactly made a night of it.

I don't honestly know how many people will be interested in playing for the Temple next year anyway.  Dave M and Cath have moved away; Dave C's got a real job or something.  Me, Tom King and Chris Bethell are probably the only three regular players.  But what's the alternative for us if Temple doesn't enter a team?  I guess there isn't one.

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Post by bellyboy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:50 am

Pete F wrote:...And once they have made the effort, only to be bummed on an unfamiliar table, they don't bother making the trip the next time around.
:D Now there's an image.

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Post by Graeme » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:18 pm

Pete F wrote:I don't honestly know how many people will be interested in playing for the Temple next year anyway.  Dave M and Cath have moved away; Dave C's got a real job or something.  Me, Tom King and Chris Bethell are probably the only three regular players.  But what's the alternative for us if Temple doesn't enter a team?  I guess there isn't one.
It depends. Last year there were some people at some of the graduate colleges who were quite keen on playing but didn't have a table in their college. With the Somerville/St Annes/LMH fiasco of the previous year I had banned multi-college teams, without realising the interest from these players. I've mentioned this to Lea (this year's secretary) and hopefully we can have some system in place for them to play. Same could be true for you guys.
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Post by Pete F » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:51 pm

bellyboy wrote: :D Now there's an image.
Oh, Tom, I'm sorry.  Did you think we did that to people other than you as well?   :wink:
Graeme wrote:It depends. Last year there were some people at some of the graduate colleges who were quite keen on playing but didn't have a table in their college. With the Somerville/St Annes/LMH fiasco of the previous year I had banned multi-college teams, without realising the interest from these players. I've mentioned this to Lea (this year's secretary) and hopefully we can have some system in place for them to play. Same could be true for you guys.
OUPC used to have a rule that you could play for any team in the league provided that you didn't appear for any other team; I remember Magdalen tried to tempt Fothergill away from Trinity.

A system for old boys to play would be great, obviously, but I don't see an obvious solution to the venue problem.  I wouldn't want to play for Trinity again because I don't know anyone there any more and I imagine the same would be true for other old boys still around.

So if the Temple squad carries on as the same group but the venue has to change, what other options are there?  The Duke and the Port Mahon (on St Clement's) both still have Garlandos, but they're further away from town than the Temple, really.  There is a Tornado in the Victoria in Jericho, which is nearer for some (Merton would be the furthest away ...) but again a different table type.  [I'm assuming these pubs all still have their tables - I haven't actually been to any of them in a while.]

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Post by bellyboy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:06 pm

Pete F wrote:
bellyboy wrote: :D Now there's an image.
Oh, Tom, I'm sorry.  Did you think we did that to people other than you as well?   :wink:
I just love the concept of being annoyed not at being bummed (presumably without consent) but at being bummed on an unfamiliar table.

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Post by Craig » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:35 pm

Pete F wrote:OUPC used to have a rule that you could play for any team in the league provided that you didn't appear for any other team; I remember Magdalen tried to tempt Fothergill away from Trinity.
I was not swayed.  Trinity won the cup.

Here endeth the lesson.

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Post by Catherine » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:26 am

Only just saw this thread. I am defo interested in playing any games that I'm in Oxford for. I am in Oxford more regularly these days.
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Post by Catherine » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:07 pm

Was just wondering what is going on with this as I guess the new season is starting soon...

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Post by Graeme » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:09 am

It should be sorted out in the next day or two.
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Post by Graeme » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:50 pm

EDIT: The information in this post is now out of date; there will be a Temple Bar team in the league, contact Pete Franklin if you are interested in playing.


Right, a decision has been reached by the OUTFC Secretary (Lea Kraemer) and myself:

There is not going to be a Temple Bar team in the league this term. Basically the reasons are given in my first post. In the past there have (pretty much I think) always been pub teams playing in the league; it's something I would want to continue again in the future but right now unfortunately the problems outweigh the benefits to the extent that it isn't feasible.

Everyone who is currently affiliated to a college can play for their college team in the league. Students at graduate colleges without a table can play for Linacre this term (which will in effect be a grad team).

Pete, I'm sorry about this but as you said earlier there isn't really a good solution - splitting you, Tom K and Chris B up and assigning you to college teams seems silly. Similarly lumping you all into a random college team wouldn't work.

However, bear in mind the following: all current members of the university are eligible for cuppers tournaments and the singles ladder (which was successful in its trial term and will be even more popular this term). In addition we will continue to hold DYP's every week which everyone is welcome to attend. Plus if there are other foosers in the area who want some games every now and again (like you Cath, also Andrei contacted me a little while ago) then these can be arranged whenever people are free.

We might be able to have some more serious practices on Saturdays like we did last year as well.

All of these changes apply for this term. If by Christmas there is strong interest in re-creating a pub team (e.g. at the Duke) it can be discussed. I like the inclusion of pub teams in the league, as I said, it just wasn't working last year.
Last edited by Graeme on Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Temple bar in next year's league

Post by DaveC » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:49 pm

Graeme wrote:
The problems are that:

1- There isn't a Tornado table that's easily accessible in central Oxford; consequently most players have never played on one before.

2- This is compounded by the fact that some/most of the Temple players are rather good.

3- The Temple Bar is a fairly long walk from lots of colleges.
1. So? Maybe this will broaden their horizons a little.
2. So? So if one of the colleges has a bad table and is getting rather good on their home table - will they also be disbanded?
3. So? Students at Oxford are so lazy, some of the Temple players are commuting 30-40 miles for a match.

Scrapping the Temple team for those reasons is all wrong in my opinion. The team has been in the league for several years without these problems. Any college or pub team will have periods of domination in the league, it's no reason for thfzox;ijf
Bah, I give up. I don't care anyway, do what you like it's your league.

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Post by tom_k » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:52 pm

What difference would it make recreating it at the Duke?
You'd still get

a) people moaning about the walk
b) Decent players, a place for ex-college people & grads

That leaves the fact that it's the Tornado table which is presumably the issue.

By that rationale, you should rename the league to include the word Garlando.

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Post by Dancing Defence » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:57 pm

Graeme,

Have you spoken to Linacre College about this? Is Linacre even entering a team into the league this year? I ask because they do not take kindly to students from other colleges playing on the table football table unless they are accompanied by someone from Linacre and even then they can be a bit arsey. When I was captain I had to get prior approval to staging a match on a particular night to make sure it didn't clash with something else in the common room. Just thought I'd warn you.

P.S. I think the Temple Bar team should stay, not only for those who play in the team, but also for that extra bit of sponsorship cash it generates.
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Post by Pete F » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:57 pm

Good luck in the league, Merton!

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Re: Temple bar in next year's league

Post by Graeme » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:44 pm

3. So? Students at Oxford are so lazy, some of the Temple players are commuting 30-40 miles for a match.
Yes I know, and full credit to them. But what can we do? Ban or dock points from 'lazy' teams who do not turn up to play matches? All that would achieve is even further reduced interest in the game, it wouldn't make the teams turn up.
Scrapping the Temple team for those reasons is all wrong in my opinion. The team has been in the league for several years without these problems.
I know. Only recently has there been the problem of teams conceding so many matches. If table football wasn't generally in decline in the university it wouldn't be so bad. But to be honest we've had such problems with walkovers that just getting teams playing matches each week has to be the priority right now. If the current trend of increasing disinterest continues we'll be in real trouble.

@ Naeem: thanks, I hadn't realised that the people were that fussy about use of the table (although I think you've told me before). If it turns out having a grad team based at Linacre wouldn't work we can look into having them play home games at another college.


I hadn't realised there would be such opposition to this. Would there be interest in an old-boys-type team which would play its home games at one of the colleges? If so I will talk to the committee and it can probably be sorted out.
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Post by Graeme » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:32 pm

Further to what I wrote yesterday, there is still over a week before the deadline for team submissions, plenty of time for things to be reconsidered. As I said, I hadn't realised that there would be this opposition to the removal of the Temple team; any constructive suggestions (from anyone) would be appreciated.
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Post by Graeme » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:51 pm

There now will be (if there are enough players for it) a Temple team this term, get in touch with Pete if you want to play, he's organising like last year.
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Post by Pete F » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:51 pm

I am?!

We're discussing it; captain TBC.

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Post by Graeme » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:49 am

Oops, sorry!
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