BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

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El Capitan
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BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by El Capitan » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:11 pm

Hello all,

The BFA's Tornado tables are collecting dust.

The committee has received an offer of £150 for our oldest Tornado table - affectionately nicknamed "The Dud". If I recall correctly it is from 2004, and has received minor damage to the cabinet - specifically there are now some dead spots along the sides. One man requires replacing. No tools (pin punch, bearing spanner) are provided with the table.

[We will try to add photos]

Please could you submit your offer via PM to Joe Bundy. Joe will keep this thread updated with the maximum offer. It will be like eBay - so if the current offer is £150, you can offer Joe £175, but the highest offer shown here will still be only £160. If someone then offers Joe £190, the highest offer will then be shown here as £185 - i.e. a £10 increment over the last highest offer.

Deadline for you to register your offer via PM to Joe is 29th June, 6pm. Bid increments of at least £10

The committee has approved the sale of this table, and the table will be sold to the higest bidder.


The table is currently located near Liverpool and will require collection on or before the 31st July.

FYI, In a short amount of time, we may also consider offering the four ITSF spec Tornados for sale. We have also received an offer for the 4 ITSF spec tables of £1,500 (for all 4).

[The BFA Committee have the right to withdraw this sale at any time before 12pm, June 28th]

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Martyn
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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Martyn » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:24 pm

We have also received an offer for the 4 ITSF spec tables of £1,500 (for all 4).
This seems very low to me.

How much did we pay for them and when?
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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by El Capitan » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:25 pm

Martyn wrote:
We have also received an offer for the 4 ITSF spec tables of £1,500 (for all 4).
This seems very low to me.

How much did we pay for them and when?
They were purchased at a discount from a leading UK supplier. It would seem to me to be inadvisable for us to publish the prices paid.

It's only an offer, the final price may be higher, but since there are no Tornado events, and little interest in the tables, it may be the most financially viable option for the BFA.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Alex MM » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:53 pm

Hopefully they help out a new or existing club :D

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Martyn » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:10 am

El Capitan wrote:
but since there are no Tornado events
Not now maybe, but unless you have a crystal ball, I feel it's a bit premature to say we won't need them again in the future.

Anyway, why sell? (especially as reading between the lines, we'd take a large loss).
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:44 pm

The table which John has advertised is not of tournament quality. It has belonged to the BFA for many years, and spend quite a few of those in someone's shed. Due to some water damage there is a slight warp on one of the banks. Now as a home play table it's fine - it's been at mind for the past year and it plays very well. I really liked having it in the house. But due to the slight warp it couldn't be used for tournaments, so it is of little use to the BFA.

No one has said that the 4x tournament quality tables we have are for sale. John simply stated we have had an offer for them. Though there may be other things we can do with the money/addition storage space (our current storage facility is at max. capacity) should the committee feel it is right to sell them. If anyone believes that the BFA would be making a 'large loss' on the 4x tables, then that means you think they're going cheaply. In which case anyone is free to present their own offer for the tables to the BFA and we can talk about it.

We are pretty much the only national federation in the world that has our own tables available for tournaments et al. If the game wants to progress in this country we need an operator who has the time/resources to really push the game with their business. The BFA should not be expected to provide tables for tournaments, and if it is the correct decision to sell any of our assets we are open to that. We do more than nearly all other federations by having a number of Garlandos available for tournaments and corporate events.

Joe.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Martyn » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:20 pm

FYI, In a short amount of time, we may also consider offering the four ITSF spec Tornados for sale
Ok, so they are not up for sale now, but may be later..............let's agree on this.

I don't think we should sell any assets without a valid reason and I don't think what you have written is one. I would hope the membership is consulted beforehand as from memory, this represents a not too insignificant part of BFA assets. I realise we elect a committee but important issues like this could and imho should be debated.

NB: Large loss definition could also mean the purchase price of the tables were too high at time of purchase and not just your explanation, Joe.
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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Boris » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:43 pm

The table is actually a 2003 model provided to the BFA as part of the Game-In TV televised tournament deal. Otherwise it is as described.

For the medium term we are exploring ways of sourcing Fireball tables for future tournaments but to do so we would almost certainly have to sell the Tornados to offset the costs. The 4x BFA tournament-standard Tornados are available to organisers (Eddie?) for tournaments or promotions until they are sold.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Alex MM » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:52 pm

The possibility of selling the tornados was mentioned at the AGM if I remember correctly. I've certainly heard the idea floated before.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Matt Price » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:06 pm

4 tables is not enough to hold a decent event so there seems little point the BFA holding onto them - they could only provide limited tables and would have to source others from elsewhere, making it even less likely that a Tornado tournament would be held.

I believe this is part of the reason the committee was considering the options.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by PADDY. » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:12 pm

I understand that the BFA needs the money for future tables etc,

But it would be great if these tables could be invested into say, 4 schools at [BFA decide] per play,

Then each year the 4 schools could compete against each other with their own annual 'Youth tournament / Competition' hosted by the BFA.

This could maybe turn into a good way of getting new young players into the national UK tournament scene.


Paddy

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by El Capitan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:01 pm

PADDY. wrote:But it would be great if these tables could be invested into say, 4 schools at [BFA decide] per play,
Hmmmm - a school with an open top table and through rods... unlikely I think.
Martyn wrote:El Capitan wrote:
but since there are no Tornado events
Not now maybe, but unless you have a crystal ball, I feel it's a bit premature to say we won't need them again in the future.
Anyway, why sell? (especially as reading between the lines, we'd take a large loss).
These tables are sat in a storage site, which is costing us money, and taking up room which could be used for better tables (e.g. Fireball current ITSF spec ones), or we could have a smaller cheaper unit.

This particular table which is for sale now has been provided at a few tournaments where the "professional" players refused to play on it and moaned about it being low quality, having dead spots etc.

I hope these arguements are suitable.

If the BFA had a supply of old Garlando Coperto telescopic water damaged tables, would you object to us selling those?

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by El Capitan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:07 pm

The table:

Image

Cabinet damage (the other end is similar)

Image

Cracked men (and some pins are cracked, and one other man has snapped.)

Image

Chipped goalmouths:

Image

More cabinet damage

Image

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Mase » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 pm

Martyn all you do is point out things you don't and complain. Why not be constructive and do something. IF all we do is so bad and as you say "table football in UK is dying" why don't you chip in and help.

It must get boring coming on here all the time and moaning about EVERYTHING.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Martyn » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:21 pm

Woah tiger.

All I said is that I disagree that we should be thinking about selling our 4 tournament Tornados. I still do. As for foos dying, I was trying to understand Brian Harms when he said foos gave up on him. Chill baby.
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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by PADDY. » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:32 pm

El Capitan wrote: Hmmmm - a school with an open top table and through rods... unlikely I think.
Image

Image

From Foosball.net -
There about twenty schools in China that actually have foosball on the curriculum..

link - http://foosballboard.net/phpBB/viewtopi ... ht=#146540

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Alex MM » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:35 pm

My school had an open top through rod table :D Pretty sure we're not the only school in the UK. I can probably gather some more data if anyone cares.

If this is the table I played on in Joe's house then it is great fun to play on even if it is deemed to not be of tournament standard.

On a side note which may belong in a different discussion thread. I hope, if the BFA exec do decide to sell the other tables, they are sold in a way that helps the UK table football scene as apposed to simply raising money. 4 tables could make 4 new BFA clubs..... Sounds good to me as does Paddy's ideas. I don't recall anyone talking about buying new tables during election time but I remember most of the candidates talking about improving the BFA club structure and increasing the number of clubs. I also hope there is a discussion on the Events Co-ordination working group about the buying or selling of any tournament standard tables before a final decision is made or is discussed in the public forums. Just seems sensible to me.

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Re: BFA 2004 spec Tornado for Sale (7 Day Auction)

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:07 pm

Table sold.

The BFA still has the 4x tournament quality tables. If anyone wants to discuss their future then I welcome them to get in touch with me.

Joe.

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