Fireball Table worth it?

Tables to buy or sell / Table upgrades / Table parts, specifications etc.
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davez
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by davez » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:26 pm

Jude wrote:It's clear that Dave Z does not come from an underprivileged background...
Ha ha...I have no clue why you said this or what its relevance might be, but in the spirit of continuing the excellent flame/troll war that has erupted from such a simple question, I will bother to point out that my father sold paper bags to shops and my mum worked in a greengrocer's before she married. All I can imagine is that you think I'm privileged because I know how many 'o's to put in the word 'looser' and can occasionally string words together to form a grammatically correct sentence (something I didn't learn at school but in adulthood).
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Jude
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Jude » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:29 pm

It was a compliment for you Dave... :wink:

jtayl0r
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by jtayl0r » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:36 pm

Steve, thanks for the helpful post comparing Tornados and Fireballs. That helps out a lot. Everyone has had some great inputs and opinions. FoosUK has no Fireballs in stock at the moment, but I am in no rush. Feel free to continue to give opinions... In the mean time, who wants to help me learn how to play? :wink:

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tom_k
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by tom_k » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:58 pm

davez wrote:Rob good work. Wish you could 'like' britfoos posts. Tom??
Dream on - this isn't Facebook :P

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davez
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by davez » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:12 pm

Jude wrote:It was a compliment for you Dave... :wink:
Yeah, I know, thanks...but I wanted the excuse to rant a bit...
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Sampson
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Sampson » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:59 pm

Dave, I have waited eagerly for the day when you troll us all by changing around your signature to outline the *in*correct way of using apostrophes (Apostrophe's never make plural's... etc.). For some reason, I sense that day may soon be upon us.

Lucky
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Lucky » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:01 am

Rob Davey wrote:Dave Z - 5 distinct things not 3.

4) Whose gonna start this fight and:
5) Why does Dave Bareham hate Tom Burdett so much?

I'm not getting involved in this conversation until I know the true identitiy of Jason.

He clearly knows Garlando is rubbish and Tornado is the top of the range in build quality but I

suspect he is trying to wind everyone up with his pretend opinions.

Like I said I am not getting involved. Kalsi - you're up!

Rob
Rob, I had a call from Tich about my name mentioned in this debate. Why me? My views about foosball tables are very simple and well known in foosball community.
Kalsi

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davez
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by davez » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:17 am

Ha ha. This is too good. And Luke, I did actually have that thought, but it was too painful to execute.
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

Lucky
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Lucky » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:32 am

With your version of the truth, frogater, its a good thing you're not a supreme court judge. The currently ranked #1 and #3 in the world didn't get there by playing on tornado tables. In fact the majority of the current top ten players got there mainly on combinations of Garlando and Bonzini wins. Where are you ranked?[/quote]

Ranking is mostly bull***t, with exception of Rob Atha most of the top players in UK are of the similar ability, get rid of of the SNAKE shot and then we'll really see how good they are!. Dave Ziemann is ranked No:6 and Pasqually Vananzio is ranked No:57, even Boris is ranked higher than Pas which is really a f******g joke! Pasqually taught Dave, me and lots of other top players how to play. Pasqually still kicks Dave's ass (and mine) when he plays against him, so much for the ranking!!!
Not everyone have the time or desire to play in all the (joke) tournaments to accummulate points to inflate their ego's for a false sense of superiority. Back of our minds (and when look at oursetves in a mirror) we all know how good we really are.
If Garlando was a wonderful table, why was is made to look and play like a Tornado by their makers? Where are the telescopic rod gone?
I won't even waste my time to comment on Bonzini's (reminds me of our 100 years of war with France)
Kalsi

jagiar
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by jagiar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 am

Jonathan May wrote:
jagiar wrote: 1) as many US players as there is in the top 10/100 ITSF rankings there are as many German players.
This is irrelevant for the reasons Dave pointed out. If you are a player you cannot seriously think the ITSF rankings mean anything.
Furthemore, when you look at all brackets - doubles/womans, etc, Germany places as well as the US at the Worlds most years. This coming from a country with only approx 80 million people versus approx 320 million for the U.S.
Which happens to be next door to where the world cup/champs are held, and costs only £50 to get to, and has regular access to all of the tables used in the world cup. Come on, get real. Have you played some of the top Americans? Billy wiped the floor with Fred on Garlando last time I saw them play - I think it's on YouTube. They occasionally turn up over here having not touched one of the tables, kill a few spoiled over-rated Europeans, and then go back home.

There are players in the US who would win world championships over here (and frequently do) who only get to play on that table once or twice a year. Now show me anyone (other than Fred) who has gone over to the US and done well in any of their open events.
2) Tornados don't accomodate a euro pin-style of play as much as the euro tables accomodate the Tornado style of play. This only bodes well for Euro tables and not the other way around.
This is just Bloop.

I get combative when I smell Bloop.
http://foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=4734.0

Please see Brad's post on Jan 4 2012 at 11:28:12. Do you still think my statement above is "bloop"?

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Oatsey
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Oatsey » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:59 am

HI,

that depends what you mean by EURO tables .

Some of what Brad has said is sales talk and just meant to pursuade people to play Fireball rather than Tornado as obviously he is selling them!

For example saying that Tornado rods feel heavier than say a lechmacher , Ulrich kicker used by P4P and probably a leonheart I expect etc is a nonsense when some of them have solid through rods which weigh a ton. Obviously Tornado will be heavier than telescopic on Bonzini or say RS.

Also to say
Tornados don't accomodate a euro pin-style of play as much as the euro tables accomodate the Tornado style of play. This only bodes well for Euro tables and not the other way around.
depends on what tables you are on about . For example Bonzini and Roberto sport make it a dam sight harder to play the Tornado style of play than Tornado does Euro pin or Fred would not keep winning in the USA doing front pin.

In reality a lot of this issue is due to the combination of surface and ball chosen and not necessarilly the table at all
people underestimate the effect this has on how a table plays. Try playing with a Leonheart ball on a Tornado and see how much extra grip there is for front pin shooting.

jagiar
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by jagiar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:17 am

Oatsey, that may be true, but I doubt Brad would pot such a thing on a predominately Tornado board on a 'rah-rah' post about the US team at the world's unless it had some element of truth in it.

This whole Tornado/Garlando style of play thing started with my response to frogater claiming "Only drawback with Tornado is: you need skill to play on it, thats why lots of players decide to go for Garlando/Bonzini etc" which is obviously just silliness. As for Fred, he plays front-pin on all tables, regardless of the table or who's in front of him. In fact, he himself stated that front-pin is harder on Tornado than euro style tables. He's advised players to learn the pin on euro tables (admittingly he didn't mention which ones in particular) before playing the shot on Tornado.

frogater
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by frogater » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:21 pm

jagiar wrote:Oatsey, that may be true, but I doubt Brad would pot such a thing on a predominately Tornado board on a 'rah-rah' post about the US team at the world's unless it had some element of truth in it.

This whole Tornado/Garlando style of play thing started with my response to frogater claiming "Only drawback with Tornado is: you need skill to play on it, thats why lots of players decide to go for Garlando/Bonzini etc" which is obviously just silliness. As for Fred, he plays front-pin on all tables, regardless of the table or who's in front of him. In fact, he himself stated that front-pin is harder on Tornado than euro style tables. He's advised players to learn the pin on euro tables (admittingly he didn't mention which ones in particular) before playing the shot on Tornado.
Yes you are quite right. It is silly to compare Garlando etc with Tornando. I also agree one could learn to play foos on any cheap table and then progress to play on Tornado.

jagiar
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by jagiar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:27 pm

frogater wrote:
jagiar wrote:Oatsey, that may be true, but I doubt Brad would pot such a thing on a predominately Tornado board on a 'rah-rah' post about the US team at the world's unless it had some element of truth in it.

This whole Tornado/Garlando style of play thing started with my response to frogater claiming "Only drawback with Tornado is: you need skill to play on it, thats why lots of players decide to go for Garlando/Bonzini etc" which is obviously just silliness. As for Fred, he plays front-pin on all tables, regardless of the table or who's in front of him. In fact, he himself stated that front-pin is harder on Tornado than euro style tables. He's advised players to learn the pin on euro tables (admittingly he didn't mention which ones in particular) before playing the shot on Tornado.
Yes you are quite right. It is silly to compare Garlando etc with Tornando. I also agree one could learn to play foos on any cheap table and then progress to play on Tornado.
frogater, you're confusing progression with adaptation.

frogater
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by frogater » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:33 pm

jagiar wrote:
frogater wrote:
jagiar wrote:Oatsey, that may be true, but I doubt Brad would pot such a thing on a predominately Tornado board on a 'rah-rah' post about the US team at the world's unless it had some element of truth in it.

This whole Tornado/Garlando style of play thing started with my response to frogater claiming "Only drawback with Tornado is: you need skill to play on it, thats why lots of players decide to go for Garlando/Bonzini etc" which is obviously just silliness. As for Fred, he plays front-pin on all tables, regardless of the table or who's in front of him. In fact, he himself stated that front-pin is harder on Tornado than euro style tables. He's advised players to learn the pin on euro tables (admittingly he didn't mention which ones in particular) before playing the shot on Tornado.
Yes you are quite right. It is silly to compare Garlando etc with Tornando. I also agree one could learn to play foos on any cheap table and then progress to play on Tornado.
frogater, you're confusing progression with adaptation.
\and you mixing reality with fantasy

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Mogwai
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Mogwai » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:56 pm

Garlando vs Tornado debates are so 2003.

Love,

Dawn Ado

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Mogwai
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Mogwai » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:56 pm

Yes, Dawn, I agree, so is using fake usernames.

Love,

Gary Lando

jtayl0r
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by jtayl0r » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:04 pm

I found a great deal on a good-as-new ITSF Fireball Home Table, so that is what I am going to go with. I wanted a Tornado, but couldn't justify the extra cost at this level. If I start competing I can always sell it and move up/over/down (depending on your opinion) to a Tornado or Garlando. Thanks for all the great input. Now I just need someone come teach me how to play on this damn thing! :D

If anyone is ever in the Newmarket/Ely/Cambridge area and wants someone to beat up on at foosball and drink a pint with, send me a message!

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El Capitan
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by El Capitan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:30 am

What a ridiculous thread. Can't get people to help with events or the UK scene, but a classy table-vs-table thread gets people going.

And so many views from a small group (Jon / Mase mainly!) which seem rather mean to whoever Jason is, and are coming from two people with heavy involvement with both UK Fireball and Tornado tables... I see you didn't mention that much in your posts.

For the record, I am considering buying an old second hand Tornado myself in my next house, but only because they are so cheap now - due to the fact that no pubs will take them, and no one in the UK is supporting them, so for the money (£250-£350) they are a bargain.

After that it's a close call between a garlando (probably an F1 World Champ if I can find one) and a Fireball. Both are really nicely made and heavy duty.

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Mase
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Re: Fireball Table worth it?

Post by Mase » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:36 am

El Capitan wrote: And so many views from a small group (Jon / Mase mainly!) which seem rather mean to whoever Jason is, and are coming from two people with heavy involvement with both UK Fireball and Tornado tables... I see you didn't mention that much in your posts.
.
Don't let the truth get in the way of your post John.

Firstly, I have never been directly involved with Foosball UK other than assisting run the UK event for them in Manchester at the request of Jon and emptying the odd table that helped the companies out mutually. I no longer do this.
Secondly I am no longer involved in the running of Foos4Fun which by the end did not have a table bias towards Tornado we had as many RS and Garlando as Tornado.
Thirdly I have operated four types of table and my opinion was based on my experiences.

Regards,

Ben

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