Need some help with a rule

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Jonathan May
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by Jonathan May » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:53 pm

Tom Yore wrote:Hi Jonathan,

The Rules Commission previously ruled that a player, when defending, may control the rod from the elbow and below, provided it's not done in a distracting manner, and that no other part of the body may be used such as the hip, leg, etc.

This is an agenda item that needs to be included in the next revision of the rule book.

Best regards,

Tom Yore, President
ITSF Rules Commission
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by Willy » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 pm

Seems like a pretty comprehensive answer

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:23 pm

Cheers Jon!

Shame for me, I do this all the time (I at least adjust with the hip if not push the bar right in).

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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by davez » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:52 pm

Willy wrote:Seems like a pretty comprehensive answer
Apart of course from the worrying inclusion of the phrase "when defending".
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by Elvis » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:32 pm

Yes Jon - Thanks for the clarification on this.
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by Cauterize » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:55 am

Yeah, what's with that loophole "when defending". Couldn't they have just generalized that statement?
Last edited by Cauterize on Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:05 am, edited 6 times in total.

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davez
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by davez » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:12 am

In all likelyhood it's merely a phrase intended to exemplify a situation rather than limit the scope of the rule, but it's a shame it's there.

It touches on a systemic and longstanding issue with the rules, namely, that they don't separate and distinguish between proscription (the actual rule) and elucidating commentary (which is almost always needed to provide examples and deliver understanding).
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Jonathan May
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by Jonathan May » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:32 am

Dave - why don't you rewrite them?
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Re: Need some help with a rule

Post by davez » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:03 pm

Some years ago in Tornado days I started to do that, but quickly discovered something that prevented me from continuing. What you see in the book is a rule, but not the intent that led to the rule's creation. Without understanding the intent behind a rule, it's almost impossible to recast it accurately. I felt I needed a committee of experts to do it.

It's the absence of the intent that leads to difficulty when interpreting a rule. For example, this discussion about hips. Without understanding the intent behind the restriction it seems arbitrary, and we are left to make a purely literal reading of the rules, which in this case would have led us to believe hips are OK. By appealing to authorities like Tom Yore we begin to expose the intent layer, although it always seems to remain implicit and unexpressed.

To rewrite the rules I would have had to reverse engineer the intent layer, which I didn't have the knowledge or authority to do alone.

I would like to try again one day.
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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