A possibly pointless rules question

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richmarsh
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A possibly pointless rules question

Post by richmarsh » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:57 pm

Okay, I understand this rule clearly, but in the interest of starting a useless debate, I'll pose a question.

4.2 Ready Protocol
Before putting the ball into play the player in possession of the ball shall ask the opponent if he is "ready". The direct opponent has three seconds to respond "ready". The player in possession of the ball now has three seconds to begin to put the ball into play. Waiting beyond these time limits will be considered a delay of game (See Rule 25).

The player must move the ball from one player figure to another and then wait at least one second before advancing the ball. The player is not required to stop the ball. Time limits begin one second after the ball contacts the second player figure.


So at least one second must elapse before advancing the ball to the 3 or attempting a shot (after it's touched the second man) and it must touch two men. Easy.

Two questions then:

If you lose the ball to the opponents 5 bar or 3 bar they can play on, even if a second hasn't elapsed?

What if you purposefully back pass from the 5 bar to your 2 bar before a second has elapsed. Does this count as advancing the ball?

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davez
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by davez » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:17 pm

Yes to the first, assuming you mean it that happens after the non-server has responded "ready".

Yes to the second. Advancement is defined as leaving the rod of possession.
Last edited by davez on Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by shovie » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:20 pm

If you lose the ball to the opponents 5 bar or 3 bar they can play on, even if a second hasn't elapsed?
Yes, once the other player has said "ready" it's your responsibility not to lose control of the ball. A lot of the time if you immediately lose it (e.g. it just slips forward from under a pin before you've event attempted to pass it to the second man) the other team will be nice enough to give you the ball back, but they don't have to!
What if you purposefully back pass from the 5 bar to your 2 bar before a second has elapsed. Does this count as advancing the ball?
Movement in either direction counts as "advancing".

Alex

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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by AK47 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:17 pm

richmarsh wrote:
The player must move the ball from one player figure to another and then wait at least one second before advancing the ball. The player is not required to stop the ball. Time limits begin one second after the ball contacts the second player figure.


So at least one second must elapse before advancing the ball to the 3 or attempting a shot (after it's touched the second man) and it must touch two men. Easy.
I may have read this incorrectly, but...
Time limits begin one second after the ball contacts the second player figure
... would suggest a total of TWO seconds must pass after touching the second figure before advancement. Please can someone clarify?
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by richmarsh » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:34 pm

I believe that's referring to the time limit for keeping the ball on the 5 bar.

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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by Boris » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:12 pm

They essentially refer to the same second, i.e. time limits start from as soon as the ball goes 'live'.

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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by davez » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:14 pm

AK the point is that the referee (whether actual or virtual) starts timing your 10 seconds of possession AFTER the one second has elapsed.
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by Boris » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:13 pm

davez wrote:AK the point is that the referee (whether actual or virtual) starts timing your 10 seconds of possession AFTER the one second has elapsed.
I'd start the clock as soon as the ball touches the second man, but don't call time limits until 11/16 seconds from a kick-off or restart.

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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by davez » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:38 pm

I worded my answer in order to explain the rule in the clearest possible way and not to communicate what a referee actually does.

In fact I don't do it the way you describe because I think it allows more room for a mistake, and also for confusion, both in my mind and anyone watching me. Also, the wording of the rule implies that you are supposed to start timing one second after the second touch.

Admittedly this means that the initial one second is subjectively timed, but I believe that's actually more accurate than looking back to read your watch and realistically expecting to see if a pass or shot was too early. I'm suggesting that your subjective assessment of one second will be just as accurate and probably more consistent.

However, it would be nice to see if there's any official guidance on whether a specific process is recommended..
Last edited by davez on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by AK47 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:28 pm

Cheers Dave/Boz.
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by davez » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:27 pm

What you really mean is now STFU Dave/Boz innit?
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by shovie » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:18 pm

I judge the first second in my head then start the clock.

Alex

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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by PADDY. » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:29 am

davez wrote:......innit?
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Re: A possibly pointless rules question

Post by Teeb » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:17 pm

shovie wrote:I judge the first second in my head then start the clock.

Alex
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