One man golie Tornado opinions

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Famous Al
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Post by Famous Al » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:03 pm

leaks wrote:Why not bring all the other tables in line by giving them 3 men at the back ;)  (joke!)
Already happening!
http://www.foosballstore.com/products/d ... n/4109.cfm

Looks as though the "soccer table" market isn't the only new market tornado want to get into and are now producing something with similar men and bumpers to BCE tables like you would buy from Argos etc.
http://www.justfoosballtables.com/foosb ... ltable.cfm

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Rhys
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Post by Rhys » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:26 pm

The 3 goalies are great and they shold be kept.  They make the game quicker and they don't cause more slop.

Cheers,
Rhys
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davez
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Post by davez » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:09 pm

In both doubles and singles I use the goalie wingers for passing to the 5-bar and also to the 3-bar. In singles I use the winger for scoring goals.

Removing the wingers constitutes further erosion of unique aspects of the Tornado game, and removes more skill elements from the game.

While the ITSF may wish for uniformity, the manufacturers will inevitably prefer to distinguish their products in a competitive marketplace.

It goes in cycles, so I have no doubt that when all the tables are the same, one manufacturer will be unable to resist introducing a new element which will give them a competitive edge in the marketplace.

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Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:34 am

Posted on the USA board under the "2007 Tornado Table" thread, Mary Moore recently wrote this:
I'm thinking we will see......
8 score keepers
single man goalie rod
$100 increase for ITSF Tax
ice box cabinet for stickers to show advertising
No Quality Control
All for the name of table sales in Europe 3 to 1 over US Sales

These are just my visions no facts.
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Interesting comments I thought.
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Daleken
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Post by Daleken » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:19 am

I vote for the one-goalie rod. It looks better to an outside community, it looks like a more cohesive and coherent sport. The more similar the tables are, the more solid the sport is.

I wouldn't like to see lots of variety in tables. First of all, from the player's perspective it would be rather fun to have, say, tennis on ice or tennis with bouncy balls, but even though variety is quite fun, it can get confusing. In tennis, surface might be the only difference in all the playing styles. Yet in foosball, a sport which is not yet recognized, I think presenting a coherent and solid picture will be essential.

Let's look more at the future of the sport, rather than the fun variations.  The three man goalie should be used for recreational play.
Kenneth L. Dale

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Mike A
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Post by Mike A » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:40 pm

I vote for the three man-goalie rod, it identifies foosball as an independent game to real football, which it clearly cannot mimic and is debatable as to how far it should try to.  It looks like a more cohesive and coherent sport. The more similar the tables are, the more solid the sport is.

I wouldn't like to see lots of variety in tables. First of all, from the player's perspective it would be rather fun to have, say, tennis on ice or tennis with bouncy balls, but even though variety is quite fun, it can get confusing. In tennis, surface might be the only difference in all the playing styles. Yet in foosball, a sport which is not yet recognized, I think presenting a coherent and solid picture will be essential.

Let's look more at the future of the sport, rather than the fun variations.  The one man goalie should be used for recreational play.

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Messiah
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Post by Messiah » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:44 pm

Mike A wrote:I vote for the three man-goalie rod, it identifies foosball as an independent game to real football,
I often get confused myself as to which one I am playing.
Still going....

Craig
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Post by Craig » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:07 pm

LOL

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:53 pm

Messiah wrote:
Mike A wrote:I vote for the three man-goalie rod, it identifies foosball as an independent game to real football,
I often get confused myself as to which one I am playing.

As it would appear do the Newcastle Football team. LOL

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Post by Rob Davey » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:59 pm

Mase wrote:
Messiah wrote: I often get confused myself as to which one I am playing.

As it would appear do the Newcastle Football team. LOL
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

Agreed!!

Daleken
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Post by Daleken » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:54 am

By the way... What about the futbolin table? If we have a three man goalie, certainly we could have a four man offense and a three man midfield and defense?

No joke, though. Anyone imagine incorporating the "Spanish" stlyle of play, along with the French, etc. If they had a futbolin table as one of the five official tables?

I mean, certainly it's possible to develop skill on the futbolin table, perform pulls and pushes, pull kicks and push kicks, back pins, etc.

My vote is this: if Tornado keeps the 3 man goalie, futbolin should be introduced to ITSF. Either that, or coherent player numbers and arrangements on all tables.

What are your votes?
Kenneth L. Dale

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Post by MikeF » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:11 pm

I would like to see a single goalie on a Tornado. I hate the Nevilles and think they have been a terrible problem for Tornado in the past. They make the table look alien and somehow 'wrong'. I have lost count of the number of times I have tried to convince new players/onlookers/press/media/venues that the table is excellent, only to have them dismiss it.

I believe the reluctance of the manufacturer to change the table and also to build it somewhere else to cut costs, has cost them market share up to now. Things change, they now are being braver and more competitive in my view.

We've all learned to play with the three man version, but that's because we've HAD to, not because the table was better for it.

As I understand it, an American designer introduced the 3-man goalie to reduce the cost and/or keep simplicity of manufacture. By going to 1-man, I believe the Tornado will be easier to sell to new markets/players in the rest of the world.

I understand that having both types 'out there' will cause hassle, particularly if they don't improve the conversion kits, but change is like that :P
Mike F 8)
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kizersose
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Post by kizersose » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:14 pm

Mike
Your post sound logical but should TVR start making saloon cars to gain more shares of the market?
We know what we see, Tornado has a larger market as it is without spoiling what is special.
Malasia,Costa rica,and many more places has Tornado tables every 100 yard in the populated places.

George
Kick ass at Nante British team good luck

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Boris
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Post by Boris » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:45 pm

The beauty of the Tornado table is its consistency and control, not that it has 3x goalies which as Mike rightly says, was introduced as a cost-cutting measure.  

Tornado may have good penetration of many markets in the far East, but in Europe it is nowhere near the top of the heap.  In the UK it is probably 4th behind Garlando, Fas and Roberto-Sport, and is in danger of falling behind Bonzini in the number of locations.  One of the big barriers to acceptance in a mature market (like Europe) is the 3x goalies.  If they went for a 1-goalie table I'm sure their market share would increase, without damaging market share in their existing territories.  

The end-ramps on the bespoke tables are very slight, just enough to prevent the ball going dead in the corners, and nothing like the steeper ramps people associate with Garlando, FAS etc.

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shovie
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Post by shovie » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:28 pm

The end-ramps on the bespoke tables are very slight, just enough to prevent the ball going dead in the corners, and nothing like the steeper ramps people associate with Garlando, FAS etc.
I don't see this as necessarily being a good thing. The steep ramps on other tables play the same role as the wide men on a tornado by helping to prevent the ball bouncing off the back wall to the 3-bar.

People will have to improve their 2-Bar catching skills a lot.

Alex

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Messiah
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Post by Messiah » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:13 pm

Is the slope similar to that on Bonzini tables?
Still going....

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Oatsey
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one man goalie

Post by Oatsey » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:37 pm

The slope is virtually the same as the tec ball.

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Messiah
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Re: one man goalie

Post by Messiah » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:47 pm

Oatsey wrote:The slope is virtually the same as the tec ball.
Informative, yet of no use to me at all as I have never seen a Tec Ball.
Still going....

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