Griffin rules & beginners

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oldman
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Griffin rules & beginners

Post by oldman » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:17 am

Are there any particular parts of the ruleset that tournament beginners often miss that they should watch out for?

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Jonathan May
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Re: Griffin rules & beginners

Post by Jonathan May » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:47 am

oldman wrote:Are there any particular parts of the ruleset that tournament beginners often miss that they should watch out for?
Kick-offs and restarts.

Jon

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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:08 pm

- Number of walls allowed on the 5 bar - if this is still in ITSF?
- Adjustment and stationary passing
.

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Post by Rob Davey » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:20 pm

Dead balls and ball off the table.

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Post by Craig » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:42 pm

So basically everything.

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Naked Snake
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Post by Naked Snake » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:57 pm

Distraction Rule- especially the part prohibiting talking etc during play.
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Mase
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Post by Mase » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:59 pm

Mark,

What about shouting "you gotta want it". Joe showed me a dvd last night and told me the story, she is scary.

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Post by Craig » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:38 pm

Actually, most of these rules would not be strictly enforced in a novice event (unless a novice knew the rules very well and was anal enough to pick you up on it).

I think most SPs and above would let any minor infringements slide if playing a rookie.

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Post by oldman » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:00 pm

regarding the serve I am slightly confused, the ITSF rules seem to suggest that the ball is placed at the middle of the serving teams 5-man (like a kick-off), whereas the old tornado rules made use of the serving hole (whilst permitting spin). Is my understanding correct?

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Post by Boris » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:10 pm

Mase wrote:Mark,

What about shouting "you gotta want it". Joe showed me a dvd last night and told me the story, she is scary.
I wuz there - it was between points or during a time-out, not while the ball was in play!  It probably intimidated her opponent a bit though...

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Post by Naked Snake » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:15 pm

oldman wrote:regarding the serve I am slightly confused, the ITSF rules seem to suggest that the ball is placed at the middle of the serving teams 5-man (like a kick-off), whereas the old tornado rules made use of the serving hole (whilst permitting spin). Is my understanding correct?
Hi Dominic,

You are exactly right - the new ITSF rules are for all tables. Some tables don't have serving holes therefore the new rules indicate that you place the ball on your 5-rod.

However, even in the big comps the general Tornado concensus is that you can serve through the hole if you want, as long as you do it the whole game - i.e. you can't switch between the two types of serve. Players were doing this in the KY superbowl, and one of the guys who wrote the ITSF rules (Tom Yore) was there so I guess they're happy with this as long as the tournament organiser agrees.

Mark
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Post by Boris » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Naked Snake wrote:
as long as the tournament organiser agrees.
You mean as long as both players agree before the game.  If a player doesn't object to the old serve all the way through the match he can't start to object on sweat ball.  On the other hand if a ref is called the new rules should be enforced - irrespective of what had been agreed beforehand.

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Post by davez » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:35 pm

Sorry but this is a mess. Much as I love the Tornado serve I do not understand the rationale for this highly specific suppression in the ITSF ruleset, or the logic behind saying if the match is reffed you have to then revert to the ITSF rule.

Suppose both players agree to use the Tornado ball-off-table rule instead of the ITSF rule (in an unrefereed match). Is that also OK? If not why not? If so, then where does it end? If my opponent agrees can we play to all of the Tornado rules instead (in an unrefereed match of course)?

How would an official be able to make a judgement on such a variation when called to resolve a dispute in an unrefereed match?

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Post by Rob Atha » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:36 pm

Nobody had any problems with the rule over the weekend, Mary said just stick to one of them for the whole match, you can choose. I can't see anyone complaining TBH. Like Mark said, Tom Yore was there too and wasn't bothered.

So whatever you start the match doing, i.e either serving it through the Hole or placing it in the middle, make sure you do it for the whole match.

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Post by Rob Davey » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:52 am

So what about this - we must agree on something before the game starts right.

So what if I have been practising the new serve rule - and I come up against an opponent who wants to serve through the hole.

I will probably want to agree that we BOTH use the same rule as I do not want to make any mistakes on my oppponets serve - ie the quick put in etc.

So what if we disagree - then what?????

Rob

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Post by Messiah » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:21 am

Rob Davey wrote:So what about this - we must agree on something before the game starts right.

So what if I have been practising the new serve rule - and I come up against an opponent who wants to serve through the hole.

I will probably want to agree that we BOTH use the same rule as I do not want to make any mistakes on my oppponets serve - ie the quick put in etc.

So what if we disagree - then what?????

Rob
Play by ITSF rules, then no probs. Nuff said....

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Post by Naked Snake » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:42 am

Rob Davey wrote:So what about this - we must agree on something before the game starts right.

So what if I have been practising the new serve rule - and I come up against an opponent who wants to serve through the hole.

I will probably want to agree that we BOTH use the same rule as I do not want to make any mistakes on my oppponets serve - ie the quick put in etc.

So what if we disagree - then what?????

Rob
You serve how you want, they serve how they want. If this is no good, use Dan's idea.

It's not rocket science lol!
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Post by davez » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:14 am

Rob Davey, I agree with you.

If it is not rocket science then how come nobody has answered the questions in my post above (which were not intended to be rhetorical)?

I will give a possible scenario of how it can go bad...

The players fail to agree which serve to use upfront (very likely). On the first ball player A serves the ball through the hole, but oh dear, he mis-serves and it goes to the opponents 3-bar. Player A then claims that he was not in fact using the Tornado serve at all, but simply feeding the ball through the hole as a quick way to get it to his middle 5 bar puppet as the precursor to his ITSF serve. And therefore, he claims, gameplay has not yet started and so it was not a mis-serve.

Why are we trying to turn something very simple (an unambiguous rule) into rocket science? Is it so that there's more chance of it blowing up?

Just so you understand me, I will happily play to whatever rules the HO tells me to play to, but I am also sharing my thoughts about this in a friendly and supportive community atmosphere, so don't freakin' flame me, OK?

Dave

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Post by leaks » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:39 am

So much trouble over popping the ball in through the side hole or putting it in next to the man! Im not sure why people want to cling onto the Tornado put-ins - I dont really see that it matters (the only difference perhaps is that u can pop it in and hack/pass straight away with the old rules - big deal!).

In liverpool we played ITSF rules - there were no arguments over whether we'd still use the old Garlando adjustment rule (which could be an issue for garlando players who usually adjust with the front of the foot when they pass), people just played the new rules and most games were played without rule disputes or any confusion/controversy. The new ITSF rules are the rules across tables now - why dont we just play them and get used to them, cos theyre here to stay?

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Post by dheason » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:56 am

Having just started playing Tornado I reckon the best advice is to use the ITSF rules and put the ball on your 5 bar if you are a rookie. I've tried using the serve hole and normally end up giving the ball directly to the opponent and losing posession.

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