5-bar up? 5-bar down?

Foosball chat / key issues and discussion

Do you agree with the Oxford League rule '5-bar CANNOT be left up'

Yes, it makes sense to me
5
10%
No, ban it now, and burn those that support it
18
37%
I don't care about this meaningless poll
2
4%
I am an Oxford/Former Oxford Player, I SUPPORT the rule
15
31%
I am an Oxford/Former Oxford player, I DISAGREE with the rule, for the good of the league: Ban it!
4
8%
I am Dan Gallon/Dave Morgan
5
10%
 
Total votes: 49

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DaveC
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5-bar up? 5-bar down?

Post by DaveC » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:58 pm

In the Oxford League there is a rule, and it is as follows.

During singles, the 5-bar may only be in a raised position when the players hand is on the bar, i.e. you can't leave the midfield up.

Please vote above and feel free to add your opinion on this matter.

Dave



PS This is all Dan Gallon's fault.

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Catz1
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Post by Catz1 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:05 pm

Its a rule that works. Its always worked. No-one's complained about it ever before. It aint broke, so lets not bother fixing it, eh? :x

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Shovo
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Post by Shovo » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:21 pm

Stop being such a baby Dave.

The rule is the best way to prevent a situation (which has already been clearly explained to you) from happening and ruining games and making them overrun. Like you, I played table football before coming to oxford and was a bit confused by the rule when i came across it. However, I completely understand the reasons behind it, have accepted it and have adapted my game to suit it.

You should do the same.

Shovo

Craig
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Post by Craig » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:36 pm

I agree 100% with Shovo.

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Post by JT » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:38 pm

I agree with Dave. I was taught this rule by an ex-Oxford player and was perplexed when I came to my first tournament and it no longer stood. It can however be a bit annoying on Garlando as the men have a habit of falling back down, making the pace a bit tedious.
Last edited by JT on Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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shovie
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Post by shovie » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:42 pm

Is it really needed in the top division if its mainly used to prevent people who cant control the ball from taking ages setting up their shots while the rod falls down?

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Matt
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Post by Matt » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:32 pm

shovie wrote:Is it really needed in the top division if its mainly used to prevent people who cant control the ball from taking ages setting up their shots while the rod falls down?
yes, the reason being not all oxford tables are well balanced and flat, so even if you control the ball and pick the midfield up, then two passes between defenders later and the table rocks slightly and your back to the start.

Dave the majority of the top oxford players don't mind playing this rule, as shovo said you have to adapt your game a little.

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Post by Josh Nall » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:38 pm

Ideally I'd love to see it go because I'm a defender and all my shots from the back become rubbish when I have to cross my hands. And it generally makes singles more random. But, unless someone figures out a way of stopping the midfield falling back down every time a butterfly coughs in Japan, I reckon it has to stay because watching someone set them up 5 times before finally getting a shot off is really dull.

Ooh, and just to make this thread more interesting, could this whole issue not be applied to all U.K. tornaments? seeing as they have all tended to over-run recently - stopping 'propping' would speed up singles :P

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Mike A
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Re: 5-bar up? 5-bar down?

Post by Mike A » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:01 pm

DaveC wrote:In the Oxford League there is a rule, and it is as follows.

During singles, the 5-bar may only be in a raised position when the players hand is on the bar, i.e. you can't leave the midfield up.
Does this Oxford rule only refer to the 5 bar?
If so, I presume you can leave the 3 bar up, and hold the 5 bar up with your hand?

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Post by nfm24 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:17 pm

Shovo wrote:The rule is the best way to prevent a situation (which has already been clearly explained to you) from happening and ruining games
In that case, why not ban any lucky goals that hit accidental walls etc before they go in, since these also can ruin games.
Not being allowed to leave the bars up means there is a higher chance someone will hit their gash shot off 10 men and in your goal.

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Mike A
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Post by Mike A » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:22 pm

As far as national competitions on WC spec tables are concerned, put the buffers against the wall to stop the rods falling back down so easily. Seemed to work fine for me at Reading and Burnley.

At the end of the day, there is still a 15-20 second rule which incorporates time taken to set up rods. If there is no jarring, and the rods keep falling, and consequently your opponents time limit elapses then you should call them on it.

If, as often happens in UK competitions, people jar the tables and this knocks the rods down, then there is a reset, and the time limit starts again. You know if you have jarred the table or not, so just be sensible about it. If you find you are setting up the rods for the 5th time, and there has been no jarring, then just release the ball pretty dam quick.

The worst case I saw was where someone needed to reset their rods about 3 times. This took about 15 seconds, they then took their shot in about 5 seconds, so they were still within the time limits. I don't see any problem with this.

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El Capitan
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Post by El Capitan » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:25 pm

1.4 In singles games, players may not balance the men upside down in order to get a better shot from defence or midfield. They may, however, hold men up with either hand or any other part of their body. For example a player may take a shot from defence whilst using his/her left hand to hold up the midfield. If the players are accidentally knocked upside down during play then the player may leave them up whilst taking a shot.
So you can keep the men up if they are up before the ball gets to defence. e.g. if it's your kick off, put the 3-bar up, then in one motion, knock the ball backwards to the defence and put the 5-bar up.
If the men fall down it's your own fault.

How about a new rule 1.4.1 No whinging from the Tab scum? Local rules apply Dave!

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Jonathan May
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Legs

Post by Jonathan May » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:08 pm

I've got visions of people holding up the 5-bar with their right foot (this appears to be allowed by the rules) to avoid crossing hands.

It seems a completely arbitrary rule invented simply to irritate anyone who isn't part of the "foos elite" at Oxford. Sorry.. :D

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Boris
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Post by Boris » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:15 pm

This is a silly rule which only applies in Oxford.

On the other hand, there should be a penalty for jarring on the opponent if they deliberately knock the rods down, e.g. a free 3-bar possession if it happens 3 times in one 2-bar possession, from vigorous shaking etc.

Otherwise, the time limits should apply, and solve this problem OK.

Otherwise the answer is simple, hold the 5-bar up with the right hand and shoot/pass with your left...

Boris

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Post by Craig » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:30 pm

Boris and others,

The problem is, the tables are not all top quality, so it doesnt take "vigorous shaking" to knock the men down. If the defender moves the ball to his other man, for example, most of us would move the attackers to block. This can be enough to make the men fall.


Craig

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Shovo
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Post by Shovo » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:52 pm

Boris wrote:This is a silly rule which only applies in Oxford.
It's not a silly rule. Time limits are very difficult to enforce. How many times do you see anyone timing possesion at tournaments? You dont except perhaps the odd final. So the point is nobody is going to worry about time limits. They'll prop up their bars as many times as they like. To be honest, people that haven't used this rule when they play can't comment and especially can't criticise.

This is all very academic anyway. The fact is, the large majority of people playing in the oxford league don't think anything of the rule so why change it for a minority of whingers? It's not going to change (Dave), so get over it.

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Post by robmoss2k » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:05 pm

When you use rubbers instead of springs this isn't really a problem. But if you have a poor quality table with say a slightly bent 3-bar, just moving to block a shot gives all the necessary motion and more besides to knock a carefully balanced 5-bar and 3-bar down. As such this rule is necessary in the Oxford league. In tournaments, the tables are of high quality, so this isn't such an issue.

Personally, I find that you can quite easily hold up both the 5-bar and 3-bar with varying parts of your anatomy if needs be. For a period last year I was shooting with my right hand, balancing with my left hand, and holding up the 5-bar and 3-bar with my right leg. And yes, it worked too :P
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Jonathan May
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I was joking...

Post by Jonathan May » Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:24 pm

And I thought I was joking about holding the bars with your feet...

Doesn't this demonstrate what a ludicrous rule it is? Call time penalties when you get bored - and give the guys who aren't pros a chance. To force them to use unorthodox tactics only ensures that those who are regulars will win... now hang on... that can't be the reason you've got the rule, can it?

Let the people who can't use their left hand to shoot or hold up their men cross-handed have a chance. To be honest, if you can't beat them, you're lame anyway, and deserve to lose by a game full of ricochets and own goals.

All of you guys who post here are good enough that this rule doesn't apply to you anyway (you can probably shoot/pass left-handed), it seems the only people who it really affects are those who are trying to learn the game. You're only going to dissuade them by making it harder...

Jon

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Post by nfm24 » Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:09 am

El Capitan wrote:1.4 In singles games, players may not balance the men upside down in order to get a better shot from defence or midfield.
Does this mean you can leave them up for another reason, e.g. just to make the other team wait a bit longer, or if the reflection is in your eyes, or if you want to improve the feng shui.

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DaveC
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Post by DaveC » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:08 am

Nuts.
Even Boris thinks it's a silly rule. The numbers speak for themselves.

Can't you see I'm trying to help you!

The rule is STUNTING the Oxford players. Look at Craig, he's STUNTED as a direct result of the rule. Shovo is not STUNTED by the rule, but that's because he's better than Craig. I am STUNTED because I hate everything.

I will continue to temporarily whinge about it. Thank you.

Dave

PS Can we hold the 5-bar up with midrif/nob areas?

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