Liverpool Open 2012 - Discussion thread

Foosball chat / key issues and discussion
Alex MM
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Alex MM » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Looks like it's going to be brilliant! I love the exclusivity of events idea, I can't wait to play in Amatuer and Semi-pro events :) Also I was wondering if we know the agendas for the AGM yet?

Steviola
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Steviola » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:12 am

Alex - it's in discussion.

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davez
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by davez » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:56 pm

ybbun wrote:I'd prefer a reffing structure where each player pays a small amount (eg £2) at the start of the tournament, to cover all reffing throughout. There are 2 or 3 players who seem to require refs far more than anyone else, and it sucks to punish their opponents.
I think it's important to strike the right balance. The charge must not be so high that referees are not used when they are really needed. On the other hand, I think that the charge must be made at point of use to discourage wilful use. Once a flat charge has been paid there is no disincentive to calling a ref, and worse, no disincentive to calling a ref for every game. Once a flat charge has been paid by everyone it's as if referees are free again.

If there are persistent ref-callers then a flat fee structure is a bad idea. I think it doesn't suck if someone has to pay for a ref if the other team call it, for two reasons. First, there's a reason the ref is being called, and the other party carries some responsibility for that. Second, the other team will often also want the ref.

Also, can someone please answer the question about where the money goes? This is sounding more like a way to boost entry fees rather than a way to recompense referees for their work. Remember, we need to encourage referees to train and use their skills if we want to develop foosball in a more professional direction.
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ybbun
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by ybbun » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:51 pm

There's currently no charge for refs at UK tournaments and they're still hardly ever called.

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davez
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by davez » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:46 pm

cbalife wrote:
Joe Bundy wrote:
cmau wrote:EDIT: Briefly, can someone confirm that the HCKB is actually a Barenherz with a different name?
No, it's the 'new' ITSF Garlando ball. Actually the old high control ball - the heavy, orange, slightly furry one (description not to be confused with one of Bobby Moss).
The high control ball is bigger than the new garlando ball D:

EDIT:

As in, I have both, the supposed newer ball looks smaller. Are you using the old high control or the new ITSF garlando ball?
The High Control ball is slightly smaller. See the report here:
http://forum.britfoos.com/forum/viewtop ... 11#p115311
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by jagiar » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:59 pm

No, it's the 'new' ITSF Garlando ball. Actually the old high control ball - the heavy, orange, slightly furry one (description not to be confused with one of Bobby Moss).[/quote]

The high control ball is bigger than the new garlando ball D:

EDIT:

As in, I have both, the supposed newer ball looks smaller. Are you using the old high control or the new ITSF garlando ball?[/quote]
The High Control ball is slightly smaller. See the report here:
http://forum.britfoos.com/forum/viewtop ... 11#p115311[/quote]

Ok, now I'm totally confused. I know for a fact that the diameter of Garlando's old "hewavy, orange, furry one" is 34.5 mm. Balls being sold on Amazon called the High Control ball (and according to davez - see the most recent new post on this subject - is also the new ITSF sanctioned HKC ball) are also 34.5 mm. So what's the deal? What is the diameter of the new ITSF sanctioned ball? (in millimeters please)?

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cmau
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by cmau » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:13 pm

Surely the rationale of a referee is for equality and fairness yet if a charge is to be levied onto the victim of the inequality (cause the person cheating is clearly not going to ask for a referee) how is that going to be fair?

Let's say I continuously jar Nubbert in a game, rub magnesium powder onto the match ball and endlessly call him a skill-less hacking hexagon w**ker throughout the entirety of our game, he now has to pay out of his pocket to stop this? I can see the incentive for the referees but what about the player who is being cheated on?

Surely the logic would be to "f**k it, I'm gonna do the same" but even worse to the opponent since it is then reversed he will then have to call a referee and from that point I can play a normal clean game. It becomes a battle of who can cheat more and who breaks first...

I am not a fan of this referee's fee.

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Boris
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Boris » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:28 pm

The principle of players paying for refs long pre-dates ITSF, who were the first to incorporate a flat-rate refereeing levy in their WCS registration fees. The reason both players pay is to avoid accusations of favouring the player or team which called for and would otherwise solely pay for the ref. Getting paid is also a motivation for becoming a ref in the first place.

The HO is Jon May and he has authority to sort this situation out.

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leaks
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by leaks » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:35 pm

Jon May is a HO. I knew it.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:58 pm


Greta
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Greta » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:37 pm

When's the deadline for pre-registration?

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Boris
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Boris » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:27 pm

Greta wrote:When's the deadline for pre-registration?
2059hrs Thursday 26th Jan

ed_taylor
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by ed_taylor » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:58 pm

I don't understand how the Eligibility and Exclusivity sections don't contradict eachother-
As an amateur can you enter Semi pro doubles and also pro doubles (instead of amateur doubles)? etc. Surely pros can't enter amateur doubles, so it only makes sense this way round. Just in the Eligibility section is says amateurs can only enter amateur, open and SP events.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:56 am

Ed, the wording of this situation isn't always easy but I don't think they are contradictory.

Exclusivity applies to the events starting at the same time. This is clearer in the drop-down menus of the pre-reg - http://www.britfoos.com/registration/LiverpoolOpen2012

Eligibility is showing that all none PM players can enter 1 of these same start time events, but in the way that is most likely to be applicable to them. This is why it is stated Novices can enter Amateur singles etc. Pro Singles starts at the same time so they can enter that instead, if they so wish, but that is a rare occurrence. It is easier for the explanation to most to spell out the events that are, maybe, 'best suited' to them. Many people wouldn't be aware Pro Singles is also an event for Semi-Pro players, the eligibility section explains things like this.

However, if people want to be drawn into a debate on semantics (I can feel it coming) then please suggest a re-wording that will be easier for all to understand.

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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by potts » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:47 am

don't discuss wording issues on this thread. It means people looking for information about the tournament have to read through lots of bloop to find useful posts...If you must discuss wording issues start a new topic.

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davez
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by davez » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:42 pm

A number of players will be catching the last train back to London on Sunday, which is at 20.48.

Please can the organisers endeavour to ensure that the open events are completed by 20:30?

I do have some concerns about the number of non-ITSF events that might delay a sensible tournament finish time, but that's not too serious provided that the ITSF events are prioritised and completed on time and as early as possible.

Many thanks!
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Jude
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Jude » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:52 pm

Joe Bundy wrote: However, if people want to be drawn into a debate on semantics
On Britfoos??? Never.... surely..

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Brian Harms
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Brian Harms » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:58 pm

Jude wrote:
Joe Bundy wrote: However, if people want to be drawn into a debate on semantics
On Britfoos??? Never.... surely..
Don't call me surely


What does it mean?

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:53 pm

Just an FYI for those on the fence about attending - there are currently no UK tournaments confirmed/close to being so after this. Like last year, they're likely to be few and far between. Unsure if there will even be as many as there were last year...

So if you want a tournament fix, then come along here or maybe you'll have to wait until the summer.

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Mase
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Re: Liverpool Open 2012 - Announcement

Post by Mase » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:30 pm

Hi Joe,

I think the big issue for me for attending the uncertainty surrounding which events will actually finish on the Saturday. I can only attend one day but am not really happy to with the famous Boris "events continue" listed Sunday morning.

Is there any clarification as to what might finish. Being purely selfish I am looking at SPS and SPD.

Regards,

Ben

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