5-bar skills on garlando

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:23 pm

Sampson wrote:
CannonBallGuy wrote:
Steviola wrote: Again, you need good ball control to be able to get the ball slow but not still (as this is illegal when passing).
Sorry to kind of hijack the thread but I didn't know stopping the ball before a pass was illegal! Or have I misunderstood?
Yeah Mac, passing from the 5 to the 3 from a stationary position is illegal.
Only illegal if it's a 'clean' pass. If the ball deflects off the opposition 5, or rebounds off the back wall 1st, then that's fine.

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Jonesy
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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Jonesy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:27 pm

so like, you can't even position the ball next to the wall and then dink it past?

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Jonathan may » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:37 pm

Evertonian wrote:
Yeah Mac, passing from the 5 to the 3 from a stationary position is illegal.
Only illegal if it's a 'clean' pass. If the ball deflects off the opposition 5, or rebounds off the back wall 1st, then that's fine.
Not quite:
ITSF Rules wrote: 23.1 A ball which is advanced from a pinned or stopped position on the five-man rod cannot be
directly caught on the three-man rod of the same team regardless of whether or not the ball is
touched by the opposing five-rod
. The ball must touch at least two player figures prior to
advancing to legally be caught on the three-man rod. A pinned ball is one that is pinned to the
wall or playfield.
23.1.1 A ball whose motion has clearly stopped may be legally passed if this
pass is immediate. If there is any hesitation before the pass, the pass shall be
declared illegal. Once a ball has clearly stopped and is not passed immediately
it must then touch at least two player figures before it can be legally passed.
23.1.2 A ball that is briefly stubbed or pinched to the playing surface and
immediately released forward can be legally caught on the three-man rod as
long as the ball touches two men prior to advancing. However, if the ball is
stubbed or pinched to the playing surface, released, and then passed by the
same player figure it is illegal.
23.1.3 It is not considered an illegal pass from the five-man rod if a stopped or
pinned ball deflects off the same team’s three-man rod provided it was not
caught and there was no controlled advancement by the three-man rod.
23.1.4 If the ball touches the front or back of the man prior to the motion of a
pass it must touch a second man before it can be legally caught on the three-
rod (or five-man rod when passing from the goalie rods). However, if the ball
hits the front or back of the man on the initial contact from another rod it can
be legally passed with the same man.
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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Teeb » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:38 pm

Evertonian wrote:Only illegal if it's a 'clean' pass. If the ball deflects off the opposition 5, or rebounds off the back wall 1st, then that's fine.
Not true. If the ball is passed from a stationary position, deflects off the opponents 5, and then is caught on the 3 bar it's still illegal.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:45 pm

My bad. Would never try anything like that in a game, not sure where I got the idea that it was legal from.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Jonathan may » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:51 pm

Teeb wrote:
Evertonian wrote:Only illegal if it's a 'clean' pass. If the ball deflects off the opposition 5, or rebounds off the back wall 1st, then that's fine.
Not true. If the ball is passed from a stationary position, deflects off the opponents 5, and then is caught on the 3 bar it's still illegal.
But if you notice in the subclauses, you can score by deflecting it off your three bar. As long as it's not a "controlled advancement".
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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Jonesy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:58 pm

ahh so your still allowed to hack providing your not aiming to pass to your 3?

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Shovo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:33 pm

Stationary passes from the 2 to the 5 are legal if deflected off the opposition's 3 bar.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by CannonBallGuy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:55 pm

Wow, that's a surprise. Thanks all. :)

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by davez » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:09 pm

Jonesy wrote:ahh so your still allowed to hack providing your not aiming to pass to your 3?
As far as the rules are concerned it doesn't matter what you aim to do, only what actually happens.
Apostrophes never make plurals.Incorrect:Table's,Garlando's,DVD's,1900's.Correct:Tables,Garlandos,DVDs,1900s.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Boris » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:24 pm

It is legal to hit a stopped ball on the 5-rod off the end-wall (or your opponents defenders) and catch it when it rebounds to your 3-rod.

It is legal to pass a stopped ball from the 2-rod/goalie to the 3-rod.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Richard B » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:50 pm

Boris where does it say this in the rules i cant find it ?

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Boris » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:51 pm

It is a process of subtraction - i.e. it isn't deemed illegal...

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Richard B » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:15 pm

ITSF Rules wrote:
23.1 A ball which is advanced from a pinned or stopped position on the five-man rod cannot be
directly caught on the three-man rod of the same team regardless of whether or not the ball is
touched by the opposing five-rod.

This to me rules out the touching the opponents 5 bar bit.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Steviola » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:27 pm

Boris said if it hits the back wall or the opponents defenders i.e 2 bar or goalie rod.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by ybbun » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:24 am

I think this is getting dangerously off topic and we need to bring the discussion back to the merits of hacking.

In doubles, shooting from the 5 can sometimes be useful if used in moderation, but you really need to spend time learning a pass and a 3-bar shot to do well. Singles however is a different story.

Firstly you want to learn how to score from the 5 when the defender has at best only a little control of their defender rods, but can put a 5-bar man in front of the ball. Opportunities like this crop up many times during a singles match, such as if the ball lands on your 5 when it's been flying round the table, or the opponent shoots left handed from the 2 and you block it with your 5, or at the start of a point if they hold the 5 and 3 when you have kickoff (e.g. the first few points against European pros who are unaware of your hacking skillz). In most of these situations you just need to get the ball past their 5 and it'll probably be a goal, as the defender men are often misplaced. The way I do this is with a quick tap-bang away from me - nearly always 4th man to 3rd man shot. I don't use a palm roll because I find it too slow. It takes a bit of practice but is worth it in the end, as it essentially means you can instantly shoot the ball past a blocking 5-bar, which is a very dangerous weapon.

After you've got this sorted you can start experimenting with shooting even when the defender is holding the defender and goalie with their left hand and 5-bar with their right. Most people find it hard to maneuver 2 bars with 1 hand, and are forced to leave a gap between the men. Try passing the ball around on your 5 to see if there are any predictable patterns in the defence. A good thing to try is faking the tap-bang and just shooting straight (in my case this is shooting from the 4th man, which often worms its way through the gap in the defenders, rather than passing 4 to 3).

I've found that shooting from the 5 against a prepared defender tends to give about a 25% level of goals no matter what the skill of the opponent and how well you're playing. This is excellent against top players who will block a pass and 3-bar shot well, but not so much against lower-ranked players where you may want to pass instead.

You'll score roughly that percentage no matter what. So even if you want to keep passing at the core of your game, having a good 5-bar shot can be useful as it's essentially a fixed lower boundary goal-scoring rate which you know you can rely on if your passing and 3-bar shooting is not working.

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by Philo » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:50 pm

ybbun wrote:filth
Disgusting. :roll:

Will try some of that tonight.
Philo

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Re: 5-bar skills on garlando

Post by leaks » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:36 pm

Philo wrote:Will try some of that tonight.
Ugh, I look forward to it... ;)
Ill do the same

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