Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Foosball chat / key issues and discussion
matty96
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by matty96 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:25 am

I'm not sure Martin was asking for a handout, just exploring the possibility of something different - a BFA run tournament with cheaper fees for all entrants as the general expense has apparently been an issue for some people previously. And not necessarily just up here but anywhere in the country.
I completely acknowledge that it is easier to run a tournament nowadays and that putting one on requires a lot of hard work and effort, but the fact is there are none on the horizon which is obviously a concern and that's why WE were sounded out about hosting one.

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Elvis
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Elvis » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:37 am

Its time for the BFA to decide what its here for – what the point of the organisation is and what drives it, why people would want to be members and what the spirit of the organisation should be; and then decide what the money is for.... Leadership is sometimes knowing when not to lead - and wisdom lies is keeping your thoughts to yourself.... We have two double world champions in Darlington, both young and enthusiastic with a wide circle of friends - both studying at different colleges in the town, each with 600+ students , and both eager to make a few mistakes but learn a lot - They are desperate to run an event but worried about money - for once shut up and get behind an idea, even if they fail they'll take the experience and do better next time - the concept, their idea, is to hold a free tournament but make it big enough to attract some stars to come from around Europe - they want families to call in see what its all about, and they plan to get schools involved - consider this a marketing opportunity rather than a tournament - Those two boys spent a whole day in Newcastle playing foosball to promote a new Adidas shop and donated the bullk of their fee to the BFA £300 - Can we have it back to cover the cost of transporting the tables please? And can we finally introduce an annual £15 subscription fee to all BFA members to set up a pot to fund tournamnets
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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:04 pm

Elvis wrote:wisdom lies is keeping your thoughts to yourself....
Martin, after years of being just an awful, awful, person in the BFA community you devalue any side you publicly take the side of. Darlington table football will be more supported and do better if you just stay out of things. Everyone else up there is great. So take your own advice.

Matty - In my experience you need about £500 to cover the costs of table transport, basic trophies/medals, and the little bits and bobs that come up when running a tournament. It's not a huge amount of money. And there are plenty of ways to raise that if you're really keen to do a tournament. The world and his brother is doing crowdfunding right now.

Tournaments for the sake of it don't work. Whatever Boris may encourage you to do :wink: I ran a couple fo god awful Tornado tournaments to do just that a few years back. It's really not worth it, trust me. The good tournaments are those where the guys behind it really care. Warwick tournaments were always well attended, Rich Potts got a huge turnout at Bath, Boris's Liverpool events have always done well etc. If you're excited about doing a tournament, it will show, and success will be easier. Although really success is enjoying what you did, rather than just basic turnout.

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Steviola » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:43 pm

That £500 isn't even a cost - you make that back from table and entry fees and can still keep things cheap for players. You don't need 50 trophies to make an event fun, sourcing a free venue is not very difficult and I'm sorry but if you're going to try to attract the best players across Europe then you're doing the wrong thing for your first tournament. Start small, keep costs low, run a good event, build a rep and then run a bigger one next time.

I'm not going to respond to Martin after what I've heard etc in the past.

If you want to run a tournament, find a venue, often available for free, accurately calculate what your costs are going to be, figure out your events and if you want to make it cheap whilst still covering your costs then either don't pay out much in prize money or find someone to sponsor the tournament.

The BFA's only source of reliable income is the membership fee which was reintroduced last year (wakey wakey Martin). It is not in a position to be paying entry fees for players, or part of it, or just for some players. There are countless ways to raise money if you need it. Get the bar to sponsor you, run a fundraising event, do an expert challenge promotion. Ask someone! Tell the local papers to generate interest. I'm sure even Darlington TFC have some sort of kitty that can go towards it. Otherwise you just might have to take a couple of hundred quid hit on it. The BFA is already using it's members' membership fee to pay for table storage costs so you can have free tables - where would you be without that? I think the BFA is doing enough, more than it used to do when plenty of people ran tournaments.

Have you asked anyone if they will sponsor your event?

I don't want this thread to turn into a Darlington tournament thread - it's meant to be about how to go about running cheap successful fun tournaments to rejuvenate the player base and the state of our scene in general.

matty96
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by matty96 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:14 pm

We went after the big fish for some sponsorship. Mike Ashley, chairman of Newcastle Utd and owner of Sports Direct.com. No luck there.
Then we tried Duncan Bannatyne who lives close by and has his head offices here in Darlo. Yet to respond. We still have other avenues to pursue.

As Steve says, we'll start a new thread soon if we have any developments.

Back to the original topic. The Forum is great. We have learnt a lot from this thread and would never have fit all this in to the comment box of Facebook!!

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PaulM
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by PaulM » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:50 pm

I don't want this thread to turn into a Darlington tournament thread - it's meant to be about how to go about running cheap successful fun tournaments to rejuvenate the player base and the state of our scene in general.
The thread is about FACEBOOK or FORUM. The rest is very interesting but off topic. I love it. Time to split it I think.

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by willhawkes » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:20 pm

Facebook or Forum. I think of course the answer is, both. Facebook because it's a great way to connect with each other, it's a great way to publish news and general content of interest (and of course it's my baby let's be honest).

But the forum is where we need to have our debates and discussions like this. The forum's been dead for the past 6 months and then suddenly it turns out that everyone's still watching it and checking. So since you're all there still, let's keep up this sudden new-found momentum!

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Alex MM » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:54 am

When it comes to organising tournaments the most important form of communication happens offline imo. It's the face to face interaction with the organiser and the local players and posters at local foos spots that gets people signed up. The most important part is the message itself and who your message is trying to reach.

As usual, I am up for helping out any organiser and can help run the event on the day, teach people the software and whenever possible I'll help with the table logistics (its a good workout anyway) but they are in charge of getting the players through the door. If all an organiser does is advertise the tournament on the forum and facebook then I'll feel let down after the event, regardless of turnout. If I know they have gone out and brought locals through the door, organised mini events at their uni bar or local pub or operated tables nearby or got a big group of friends to come along then they make all the work worthwhile and in general they are the tournaments that do the best and are the most fun to be at and work at.

The tournaments which have had the worst turnouts have been the events which have set out to try to attract players from across the nation and abroad. I'm not just talking about the CV tournaments but also Isha, the last few UKCs and the last BFA league finals. They all aimed to attract players around the country and their marketing strategies were very much focused around that aim. In comparison you have university events that want to organise the tournament for their society. Obviously it's great for their current regular players but it's also a brilliant way to attract new people and keep the player's whose interest in the society is waivering. You have that Manchester event which marketed the tournament really well to the locals using online advertising and got 40-50 fresh local players. (I don't know the number off the top of my head). The events were being run partially to generate popularity for the fireball table with the aim to sell and lease tables out. Boris's liverpool event, this year, gave local players in his small regional events a place to step up their competitiveness without travelling too far. The tournament should complement an aim or activity other than simply hosting a national tournament.

Matty if you run a tournament in Darlington It may be a national or an international tournament but you should be running it for the locals, your friends and even your rivals. For Warwick 2012 that was our society and alumini on the friends side of things and Keele and Nuneaton on the rivals side. It's those people that will give you the drive and the enthusiasm to hold the event, they'll provide the majority of the players attending and make it an enjoyable experiance for yourself and the players. If you get enough people locally interested they'll be the first people to register too. If you get enough of these people attending then other people will want to come from all round the country and abroad to join in the fun. I'd strongly advise setting up online booking via ticketweb or I can do via the same software as the membership scheme. Steve is right, forget about getting the word out to the europeans just talk to the locals and see if theres an apetite there. Design the touranament around what they want and market it towards getting them to the event and envolved. Hands on action for them is much better than just watching. Then take 2 minutes to tell everyone around the country about whats happening and about all the people attending and a good number will come. Consider how many of your friends or people from the local pub would want to come to an international table football tournament? Just writing that makes me chuckle. Sure you might want the event to be ITSF to pick up some points or get some overseas players to impress everyone just remember when you are talking to people and advertising the event tha saying its going to be an international tournament might put them off as well as get them interested. They might just think I'm not good enough to compete at that level, especially if they've played either of you two!!!! They might also go that just sounds stupid foosball not even a real sport. It doesn't need to be ITSF to get them interested as most people just want to play to have fun!!!! Focus on the hobby and social side more than the competative if you want to get people involved. The tournament could be the UK Junior championships if you wanted or have it as part of the tournament. You would do a better job at getting Juniors involved than anyone on the committee!!!!

Baisically running a tournament is easy but promoting it can be tricky. If you try to do everything online and market it solely towards people who live far away and have to pay lots for transport and accomodation then you'll have a tough job. If you talk to the people you see on a regular basis and find out what they would enjoy it will be easy. If there isn't interest in your local area then question why you are running the tournament and are those reasons good enough to keep you passionate about the event and to inspire people to turn up.

There should be no need to supplement the costs of the tournament from the BFA. Having said this, if you will get a good number of Juniors involved I have up to £200 of BFA money to spend on Major tournaments in the UK and would be happy to hear your plans. I've allocated £100 for the UKC/league finals but could cut that. If you want to talk more or anyone else does please feel free to contact me. My number is 07941639689 or of course you can find me on facebook. Evenings 7-9 or Sundays are the best time to catch me.

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robmoss2k
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by robmoss2k » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:13 am

Steviola wrote:Does anyone seriously not go to a tournament because they think they won't make lots of money? Of course not. And you know what...if it's cheap then maybe more people will go...
No. People don't go to a tournament because they think they will, or even could, lose lots of money.
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DaveC
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by DaveC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:20 pm

ONE

DAY

TOURNAMENTS

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Dancing Defence
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Dancing Defence » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:06 pm

DaveC wrote:ONE

DAY

TOURNAMENTS
Dave,

Good to see your re-emergence on BritFoos. As a fellow veteran, I wholeheartedly concur with your post.

ONE

DAY

TOURNAMENTS
Naeem

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Boris
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Boris » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:25 pm

The problem with one day tournaments is that the organisers costs are the same as for two-day tournaments.

The last one-day tournament we held was the Liverpool Multitable open a year ago, where the turnout was a third of that at the weekend Liverpool Open. The Isha turnouts last year were similar - on the other hand the typical turnout at one-day Southall Tornado tournaments back in the day was 25-40 players.

Yes one-dayers have their place, but they are not the only answer. However organisers could make tournaments one-day friendly e.g holding singles and doubles events for juniors, seniors and women (+mixed) on the same day. Especially as prize funds in these events are low or non-existent it is unfair too have to book a hotel to play in both.

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Boris
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Boris » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:39 am

Back ON topic - Will - howsabout using Facebook as a way to promote the forum?

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:43 am

Facebook or Forum is a moot point unless there are things to talk about. We might as well debate the best way to talk about all the trophies Everton have won in the past 18 years (for those who aren't aware, that's none).

So unless those in the committee/community go out and post things that will create some discussion, there is no point debating which the best way to reach people would be.

Local scene's use Facebook as it's much, much easier to set up an easy to find group than it is to find a topic here on the forum (go to britfoos.com, then find the link for the forum, then find your regions forum, then find the post relevant to your club/venue....). But as members posts on the BFA's FB group page just get lost, there is no point anyone posting on there. So no one is going to use that.

More could be done on Facebook by posting things that are worth talking about. Right now it's just things to look at. It's all well and good posting all the videos/guides etc, but they're never going to get any discussion. Want some comments on the FB stuff - try posting different things until you find something that people want to comment on!

The forum was always the best place to list national tournaments, and discussions came pre/post them. If there are no tournaments, nothing to talk about.

Right now the only thing being talked about through any medium in regards to the BFA is this discussion of where is the best place to talk about things. So yeah, it's a moot point.

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by willhawkes » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:57 pm

Well funnily enough now that the Forum turns out to be alive (or rather, less dead than thought), yes I might do a FB post to encourage more people to come over here.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:45 pm

willhawkes wrote:yes I might do a FB post to encourage more people to come over here.
You've missed the point completely.

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by willhawkes » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:23 pm

A few things:

a) You've all seen it, I've posted on pretty much everything under the sun and no-one comments. I know I'm doing well when I get likes. but the format isn't right for a long discussion about the pros and cons of stuff. Heaven knows I've tried enough times asking for people to say something but there's just a swishing silence.*

b) I'm running the FB page with two targets, a) keeping our community up-to-date with news from around the UK table football world, and b) to hook in the interest of novices / casuals / beginners. who might might might want to play at a higher level.

c) I would WARMLY welcome anyone in the community who wants to produce content of any sort, e.g. the great Vine videos which Chris Lyall did a few months ago. Joe, if there's something you'd like to see done, then by all means, very happy to help you to do it. I love doing the "60 SECONDS WITH" when I have time to do them.

d) The Forum is a good place for debate like this. I've missed it during its 6 month absence. Glad it's back. If anyone wants to start any controversial threads to get a discussion going, then by all means, and I'll point to it from Facebook. Because (again), experience shows people don't say much there*.

*I am open to the line of argument that I'm not good at generating discussion in the way I run the page. BTW, again, welcome people's ideas (and contributions) which will get more people talking.

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by tom_k » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:45 pm

willhawkes wrote:
*I am open to the line of argument that I'm not good at generating discussion in the way I run the page. BTW, again, welcome people's ideas (and contributions) which will get more people talking.
On the contrary, I think you've been doing a fab job.

As a side note, as someone who has access the admin section on a fair few FB pages (some of them very big), on average, the response to pictures (or video) is significantly higher than text only posts. But actually, you're really good at that, so ignore me :)

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:09 am

I agree, Will, you're doing a brilliant job with the FB page. You're doing better than anyone else has done in the past! Much better. Meng for a while did a brilliant newsletter, but that was only monthly. And I did that sub-par blog a few years back, but again, it was only monthly. I regularly see stuff on FB from the BFA page, and I know it's going to be far from easy to find that much content! So you really are doing a brilliant job.

But the forum is dead because there is nothing to talk about. The UK national tournament scene is pretty much dead. It might come back, but right now, you'd probably have to do something very special to get a 'good' turnout like the big tournaments of old. We've lost the regular 100ish people who would go to a few tournaments a year, and all talk about things on here. As you can tell by this discussion, some people still check the forum, but it's all quiet because what is there to post about.

Right now the FB page is by far the best thing the BFA has as a point of contact for new players.

Also, asking people to comment isn't going to do anything. People will comment if it's something they want to comment on! I do seem to remember discussion following some of the old '60 seconds with'. So maybe it's about trying that and asking the right questions to stimulate discussion. Matty started off this by asking the right question. But what the right questions are is probably just pot luck!

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Re: Britfoos Forum or Facebook? Discussion

Post by robmoss2k » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:30 pm

Bundy Volume 1 wrote:We might as well debate the best way to talk about all the trophies Everton have won in the past 18 years (for those who aren't aware, that's none).
Not true! What about the 1998 FA Youth Cup, the 1996, 2003, 2005 and 2007 Liverpool Senior Cups and the 2009 MLS All-Star Game?
willhawkes wrote:BTW, again, welcome people's ideas (and contributions) which will get more people talking.
Buzzfeed are particularly brilliant at this. The term is clickbaiting, although Facebook are implementing technical measures to discourage it. It's the whole "Joe Bundy pins the ball with the goalie. What happens next will leave you staggered" type headline, normally accompanied by a picture of some young blonde lady bestowed with a pair of zeppelins each occasioning considerably more than a British Standard Handful.

Speaking of which, I believe the absence of Profanisaurus-infested posts has probably caused the forum's popularity to drop. Those threads used to drag on for weeks, and people would use other threads to talk about table football whilst they were here.
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