UKC 2012

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*mayya*
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UKC 2012

Post by *mayya* » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:40 am

This year's UKC will be held on the weekend of the 26-28 October, in Riley's Warwick/Coventry. Save the date.

Further details to come shortly.

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PaulM
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Re: UKC 2012

Post by PaulM » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:53 am

Are there any further updates on this event?

Paul M

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Rob Davey » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:59 pm

I would like to post something for the general foosball community.

This may be a little early but I feel it is important we discuss this openly before we get any 'it's too late - we have already agreed and made plans' excuse.

I have been told the committee are considering making Senior doubles and UK Championship doubles mutually exclusive. What about women? Are they also going to be treated the same way?

What are the committee trying to achieve with this decision. Obviously not a clash or hold-up of events, as there are probably only 6 seniors attending.

I wish to point out that the UK Championships are to decide the UK Champions and not to qualify for, or decide who will represent the UK at the World Championships. Every foosball player should have the right to enter the UK Open event and try to be the champion. Will women also be excluded from entering Open doubles as they have there own qualifications just like the Seniors????????? Answer from the committee please!

I have been pointed in the direction of the ITSF (from the committee) for answers - however I feel the committee should either choose another event to pick the World Championship qualifiers or put on there own event - again to decide the qualifiers. And not interfere with our UK Championships for their own ends at our (the members) detriment.

I invite others to discuss and share their opinions in the hope of finding a sensible answer.

Rob

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Steviola » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:10 pm

I have been told the committee are considering making Senior doubles and UK Championship doubles mutually exclusive. What about women? Are they also going to be treated the same way?
There will be no such event called "UK Championship doubles" - there will be Men's Doubles, Women's Doubles, Senior Doubles and Junior Doubles (as well as their respective Singles events and a range of divisional/fun events). There will not be an "Open" event, as is the case with the ITSF World Championships. Schedule/tournament will be announced this weekend.
I wish to point out that the UK Championships are to decide the UK Champions and not to qualify for, or decide who will represent the UK at the World Championships.
The UK Championships for the most part will be a normal tournament, but will also decide who qualifies to represent the UK at the World Championships, as it has always been.

At the ITSF World Championships you must choose between Senior and Men's events, as is the case here.
And not interfere with our UK Championships for their own ends at our (the members) detriment.
I don't get you here. "Interfere with our UK Championships" - you mean you don't want the BFA Committee to interfere with a BFA Committee-organised tournament? I don't follow. "For their own ends" - again, not following - we put on this tournament, out of our own free time, to provide members (are you a paid up member Rob?) with the fairest way, given resources available, to qualify for the ITSF World Championships. What exactly is at your detriment?

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Rob Davey » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:30 am

I was always under the impression that any committee is charged with maintaining the interest if it's general members (no more snide comments about paid up please). And I have always assumed that the BFA has a prime responsibility to arrange the UK Championships for its members to decide 'The Champions' - and I know this is done unpaid but all committee's in amateur sports are!!!!!

I'm not saying you should not use the UK Championships to decide the qualifiers. What I am asking is what's the point of restricting say Dave Zee's or my opportunity to choose which category we want to represent (if we qualified for both men's and seniors)? What are you trying to achieve?

Let's face it Rob will qualify with whoever he chooses and then will ask that player to drop out and he will play with Joe.
So based on the assumption that the committee are making this restriction to avoid people qualifying and then dropping out are you going to ban Rob from his tactic? Of course you won't. But what you do to one you must do to everyone to be just and fair.

Next question. What about Jon May and Mayya? They usually play in Open doubles together but Mayya will play in the women's events. Mayya and Jon are on the committee so did they support this idea that will impact their usual plans.

We have never had to choose before what event we want to enter so why this year? And how are you going to avoid upsetting Rob, Jon and Mayya while be consistently fair with the rest of the membership?

In the last few years Mayya for example had had the opportunity to enter and qualify for women's singles and doubles at the world championships through the women's events. She has also had the choice and enjoyment to try to become UK Champion with Jon in the UK Championship doubles. If this new rule is fairly applied to all categories then the committee's new proposal for change will affect her adversely and will be to here DETRIMENT! I hope that clears that point up for you.

Rob

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Rob - discussion is still going on in the committee over the UKC.

We, of course, will always want to make the right decisions in the interest of our members. We are in a good position in that our committee contains a full range of players. As an elected committee, our member base puts faith in us to make the necessary decisions in instances like this.

We'll do this, and an announcement will follow shortly.

Just as a personal opinion, UK Championships is a poor name for this tournament. In this day, the sole purpose of the 'ITSF' events at this tournament is for qualification for the ITSF world championships.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Rob Davey » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:20 pm

Thanks for your reply Joe.

So basically Steve's post below was premature - as you state you are still in discussion.


Steviola wrote:
At the ITSF World Championships you must choose between Senior and Men's events, as is the case here.
I certainly hope you make the right decisions as in the past and felt compelled to point out and discuss openly the subject of fairness to the members. I ask the committee to consider that when discussing the qualification event. And want to see this fairness evenly distributed throughout the membership. In other words what you decide to impose on one group (Seniors) you impose on the other groups (women and juniors).

Last question for today - so if this is not the UKC and going to decide the UK Champions then when will that event take place?

Rob

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Gipsy Beast » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:30 pm

Steviola wrote:
At the ITSF World Championships you must choose between Senior and Men's events, as is the case here.
We all know (having been to Nantes) you can only be part of one team in a ITSF world cup... Senior or Men are playing at the same time in different zones... I applaud the BFA for putting on an event so all members have a chance of being part of the G-B team(s) based on their performance in the tournament. The fact that top players like: Mayya, Rob, etc... produce cross overs should not overshadow this event represents a great opportunity to bring together the national team spirit :grab:

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Shovo » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:08 am

Why has this changed for this year? Who made that decision? Was there a committee vote on it?

The only reason why you might want to stop people entering both Senior and "Men's" events is to avoid potential scheduling problems, which certainly isn't a good enough reason. The most important thing about this tournament is that everyone who is eligible to represent us at the Worlds in a particular event has the same opportunity to qualify for it!

I take it Juniors aren't being prevented from entering Men's or Women's events? This is clearly a decision that has been made to make things more convenient for the TO on the day, which is fine for every other tournament, but not this one.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:08 pm

The problem is that should someone choose to enter into multiple ITSF qualifying events then, should they win any games, they will be knocking people out of an event they may chose to not compete in at the world championships. There are obvious problems with thus.

With the ITSF only allowing players to enter 1 event, it does create problems with us allowing people to enter multiple qualifying events.

It is tricky.

But there is no official announcement yet. I appreciate that this qualifying event means a huge amount to a number of our players, but a lot of talk here is based on just speculation.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Rob Davey » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:59 pm

Joe Bundy wrote:The problem is that should someone choose to enter into multiple ITSF qualifying events then, should they win any games, they will be knocking people out of an event they may chose to not compete in at the world championships. There are obvious problems with thus.
Without appearing rude this is probably the most ridiculous point so far!

How do you know if I am going to withdraw from mens doubles after winning until I enter and win?

How can you bar me or anyone else from an event based on a decision I/we may or may not make?

As John said everyone who has the right to enter should be allowed to.

If you lose to Rob A and A nother and his partner pulls out (which we all know will be a prearranged) then based on your points that should not be allowed.

I am in exactly the same position as Rob - EXACTLY.

If I play with Andy Nubb, win and pull out to play seniors I have just done exactly what Rob will do. Andy will have to find another partner (just as Rob will) and we would have beaten some teams along the way.

Hopefully you can understand what I am saying which is based on fairness.

Finally let's try to do what is right and fair and not worry about who we might lose to - that is irrelevant.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Oatsey » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:39 pm

A very interesting debate, just thought I would add my two peneth.

For someone like Rob or DZ or even a massively good junior etc it does not seem fair to make them decide between mens and seniors when they do not know whether they would have even qualified to go anyway!

In other words if Rob did qualify in mens but got beat by me in seniors (as seems likely) he would obv go with the mens team. Equally if he did qualify for seniors but got beat in mens he would obv go for seniors . If he qualifies in both obv he then has to make a decision but how can he make that decision now up front when he has no idea whether he would have qualified for the mens or not?

As Shovo sensibly said unless there is a good reason like avoiding lots of conflicts which would hold up the event significantly it makes more sense to let people go for both and see whcih they qual in so they can then make an informed decison. Whoever they beat on the way is irrelevant to me as obviously they were not good enough or if second may end up actually going anyway.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Mike A » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:53 pm

Dave makes a very good point:
Oatsey wrote:
In other words if Rob did qualify in mens but got beat by me in seniors (as seems likely) he would obv go with the mens team.
I too think Dave Oates will beat rob in seniors and I do not want to be denied the thrills of this particular show down!

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Cream Pants » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:35 am

Mike A wrote:I too think Dave Oates will beat rob in seniors and I do not want to be denied the thrills of this particular show down!
I have to agree with Mike here, this is now almost an inevitability.. Rob is past it now, this year he has an enormous lack of tournament experience not to mention a fatal lack of practice...

Plus on a very relevant side note, he is also looking rather old and slugish.. I'm not sure the reactions are there anymore!

James

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by PaulM » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:59 am

So...............
No further updates then.

For those players that get picked for the GB team, how about this shirt as the new GB kit.

http://shop.london2012.com/Team-GB-Olym ... lt,pd.html

Out of stock at the moment. But £20 is not too expensive.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:35 pm

The schedule will be published shortly. Honestly.

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Mase
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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Mase » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:11 pm

PaulM wrote:So...............
No further updates then.

For those players that get picked for the GB team, how about this shirt as the new GB kit.

http://shop.london2012.com/Team-GB-Olym ... lt,pd.html

Out of stock at the moment. But £20 is not too expensive.
Item appears to have vanished, they have updated a lot of site. Not sure if they are going to make more.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Steviola » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:25 pm

Expect the schedule et al to be announced Friday day time at the latest.

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Re: UKC 2012

Post by Happyham » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Steviola wrote:
There will not be an "Open" event, as is the case with the ITSF World Championships.

At the ITSF World Championships you must choose between Senior and Men's events, as is the case here.
At the ITSF world championships, you must choose a home table from 5 different tables. As is not the case here. I understand this is not through choice, but just saying.

I don't see a need to enforce the ITSF world champs rules and regs for the UKC.

The point of this tournament is to qualify our best players (and be the UK champion, not that this title has any prestige or value anymore) for Nantes.

I agree with Shovo (and others) in that the only reason you wouldn't allow someone to compete in multiple events is because of tournament delay due to conflicts, and this isn't an issue for this particular tournament.

If someone is eligible to compete in more than one event, then I think they have every right to try and qualify in both. Should they qualify in more than one event, then they can choose which event they would like to compete in at the ITSF world championships.
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Re: UKC 2012

Post by matty96 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:07 am

At the ITSF World Championships you must choose between Senior and Men's events, as is the case here.
[/quote]


From a Junior perspective the UKC is a great chance for Callum and myself to play the top players in the country in all categories,unfortunately something we don't get the chance to do often enough.If we were only allowed to play a Junior event at the UKC,then we might as well just play that game in my garage and phone the result in.

It was my understanding that Rob was picking the men's team early this year from submitted applications of available players.So surely the best team would be selected anyway before the UKC,meaning everybody from all categories should be able to fight it out for the UK title without worrying about qualification.

Locked