New BFA Table Scheme

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willhawkes
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New BFA Table Scheme

Post by willhawkes » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:12 pm

LEONHART AND GARLANDO TABLES AVAILABLE FOR ORGANISERS, PROMOTERS AND MEMBERS
1 October 2014

BFA TABLE SCHEME

The BFA is pleased to confirm that a new table scheme is now offered to our members, with organisers, promoters, and members now having free access to up to 14 Leonhart tables and up to 10 Garlando tables.

There is NO rental charge for the use of these tables, besides a £30 admin fee to cover attending the unit to give access to the storage container.
In addition, if an organiser intends to run an ITSF event, the BFA will pay €150 towards ITSF fees, covering the full cost of a Pro Tour event or 50% of a Master Series. This offer applies equally for both Leonhart and Garlando tables, and is made available for up to 2 events on each table for 2015.

Tournament organisers will still have to find a venue, hire a van, collect, set up and run the event, before returning the tables to the Liverpool storage facility as usual.

The BFA committee hope that this arrangement is attractive to organisers / promoters, as it provides access to quality tables at very low cost. However if this proves not to be the case in 2015 then the offer will also come to an end.

Any interested organisers wishing to hold an event and / or use these tables should contact the BFA.

BACKGROUND

As many are aware, due to changes at the Capital Venue (where much of the space is now largely used for offices), the Five Bar events in Gloucester are no more.

No longer wanting to organise tournaments nor able to store the Leonhart tables (with the free storage at the Capital Venue no longer available), Five Bar took a decision to exit their arrangement with Leonhart, the tables’ owners. The options for the tables were to return them to Germany; to sell them in the UK; or find a way to retain them for the UK table football community to use.

Against this backdrop the BFA have come to an arrangement with Leonhart whereby 14 tables will remain in the UK under the BFA’s control, to be made available at nominal cost to organisers, promoters, members and others for tournaments, corporate events or other things. In turn, the BFA has committed to cover storage costs and also that the UK will endeavour to hold two ITSF events per year using the Leonhart tables.

This has not been an easy decision. In the past offers of free access to quality ITSF tables would have been quickly snapped up, however in the current UK foosball environment with falling attendances and the BFA already owning 10 Garlandos, this required careful consideration before the committee ultimately determined to incur the additional costs.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:37 pm

Ergh, I was told about this before hand. This is a terrible idea and a huge waste of bfa money. Basically the tornado table scheme all over again. It makes me sad that priorities are so clearly wrong right now.

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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Steviola » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:33 pm

Joe,

You need to get your facts right. As someone on the current committee who knows the details behind both schemes, I can confirm that this is nothing like the Tornado table scheme. The only cost to the BFA is storage which is very manageable, the BFA is not buying these tables.

Can you please consider your knowledge level before posting your usual negative drivel? Not only is it getting boring and predictable, but it's also very misleading to members, especially when you claim to be in the know when that obviously isn't the case.

This scheme is a great opportunity for anyone looking to organise a tournament. If anyone would like to find out more please get in touch.

Steve

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Bundy Volume 1
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:58 pm

Tis true, I don't know anything about the inner workings of this.

But I'll be really surprised if you managed to squeeze 14 tables into the current storage place, so a new container will have to have been rented right? So what's that, £500 a year? And if 2x ITSF tournaments are held on them with the BFA covering £125 each, that's a £750 bill a year. I don't doubt that is manageable, as I don't think the BFA have spent anything beyond operating costs for the past few years? So should have a healthy bank balance. But just because a cost is manageable, doesn't mean that it's the best use of that money.

Where are the Leonhart players? I know it's a lovely table, and it's great to have a lovely table available. But this is just like the Tornado scheme. That's a lovely table but no one wanted to run the tournaments on it, and those that happened were forced and poorly attended. Can anyone show real enthusiasm that this wont be the case again?

Where is the encouragement for new organisers, or to get old ones running tournaments again? Just providing some lovely tables doesn't count as encouragement right now. I mean, like 30-40 people might check the forum and see this announcement? And the FB post hasn't even showed up on my phone with the updated app that only shows top stories and not most recent. So guessing loads of people missed that.

Every committee has had to deal with people complaining. It should be taken as a bad sign that no one really is right now, because it means that there aren't enough active people caring any more.

The Garlando scheme is a great one for anyone wanting to run a tournament. Boris always got a decent turnout at Liverpool, so they can't be completely unpopular tables. But no one has wanted to use them for 8 months. And given the falling turnout at the Gloucester tournaments, and the guys there really did put a lot of work into making them happen, where is the confidence in the players that someone could easily run a Leonhart tournament that would be well attended? I don't think just making these tables available is going to do anything to encourage more tournaments when the Garlandos were already there.

If Jon May was still around then this would be great, he did an amazing job at running tournaments in my time playing. But I can't think of someone else like that right now that wants to run tournaments in the BFA/ITSF model.

With the Tornado scheme the committee just made the tables available and did nothing else. If that's the same case here then it is going to be a waste of money. So go ahead and prove that I'm just a cock, and make brilliant Leonhart tournaments happen. Then I shall happily dine on humble pie and feel sad and alone initially left out of the new amazing Leonhart scene.

But to me, if there was a pot if a few hundred pounds and the choice was using it to cover Leonhart storage or put it into encouraging a brilliant foosball-tournament-love-restoring tournament with the tables we have, well, I'd have to go for the latter.

Rob Davey used to give me hell when I was chairman. But in hindsight that was a good thing, it at least made me think about what I/the committee was doing. Even if I was an arrogant toss-pot most of the time and just got frustrated with complaints. The day when the BFA does something and everyone is just 'meh', then that will be a very bad day indeed.

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shovie
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by shovie » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:30 am

Well done BFA.

Shut up Joe.

Alex

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robmoss2k
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by robmoss2k » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:11 am

Bundy Volume 1 wrote:But just because a cost is manageable, doesn't mean that it's the best use of that money.
Bundy Volume 1 wrote:But to me, if there was a pot of a few hundred pounds and the choice was using it to cover Leonhart storage or put it into encouraging a brilliant foosball-tournament-love-restoring tournament with the tables we have, well, I'd have to go for the latter.
Surely if the BFA haven't spent anything for a while there's probably enough money to cover both?
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Messiah
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Messiah » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:50 pm

robmoss2k wrote:
Bundy Volume 1 wrote:But just because a cost is manageable, doesn't mean that it's the best use of that money.
Bundy Volume 1 wrote:But to me, if there was a pot of a few hundred pounds and the choice was using it to cover Leonhart storage or put it into encouraging a brilliant foosball-tournament-love-restoring tournament with the tables we have, well, I'd have to go for the latter.
Surely if the BFA haven't spent anything for a while there's probably enough money to cover both?
Building from the top down on foundations of sand does not work. I thought we had established that a number of times.
Still going....

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robmoss2k
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by robmoss2k » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:46 am

Messiah wrote:Building from the top down on foundations of sand does not work. I thought we had established that a number of times.
Indeed true. I was just pointing out that the argument about the "best use of money" didn't really work.
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Mase
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Mase » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:30 pm

It is with great pleasure I can say we did get all the BFA tables into one lock up with some spare space also.

Great work guys.

Dan you are very right we do need to have solid foundations and having access to 24 tables to lend, hire and give to people will be a great way to support this.

Regards,


Ben

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Messiah
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Messiah » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:40 pm

Mase - I am not disagreeing with having table availability for the medium to large tournaments is a good thing, but if no one is actually playing at the grass routes level it is a bit pointless.
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Mase
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Mase » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:30 pm

Hi Dan,

I completely agree that we have an issue with people not playing at grass routes level. It has been a significant problem that the various committees have faced for 5 years since the Uni scene started to die down.

This committee is trying hard to turn this around but do always need more help, do you have any time to contribute in helping us, ideas and man power are always welcomed. As you can appreciate people simply pointing out the issues faced isn't the most help.

Just to point out again Dan the tables are not for the sole use of tournaments. We have the option here to lend some of these tables out and to help the grass route scenes.

Regards,


Ben

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Messiah
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Messiah » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:59 pm

Mase - perhaps you could start by outlining what has been tried over the last 5 years.

There has been laudable activity by JP on a commercial footing in London, and by Boris in the North West, but I am not sure what if any assistance the BFA has given to these.

For BFA-led actions, there has been the BFA league which has had moments of enthusiasm, but also seems to have some apathy.

Will has done a grand job of posting on facebook apparently (but as I don't have a facebook account I have no idea how visible that is), and I would question how many extra games of table football this has led to being played in local venues.

Other than these, what has actually been done to develop the grass roots game?
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robmoss2k
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by robmoss2k » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:13 am

Without tournaments, the BFA has no regular income with which to subsidise the grassroots game. Expert challenges will only prop the federation up for so long; one dry year and assets will have to be sold to pay bills if there's no membership income. A player can register with the ITSF for €50 for a player license, so apart from cheaper ITSF licenses there's no reason for everyone to send £5 or £10 a year to the BFA if there aren't any tournaments. No tournaments, no membership fees; no tables, no tournaments.

Speaking of no tournaments - are there any?
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Boris
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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Boris » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:27 pm

We are on the hunt for people willing to consider organising tournaments.

The first thing an organiser has to do is to find a venue and a date. The venue needs to be large enough to accommodate all the tables (each needs approx 2m long by 3m wide) and have wheelchair accessibility (to allow tables to be wheeled in and out without stairs). You then need to find people to help set up and dismantle tables before and after the event, a tournament director to run the event on the day (and train you or others to use the tournament software), and a head official (National level referee or above). It is best to consult with experienced organisers about schedule, format and pricing - if you keep entry fees low this can boost turnout but is less of generally an issue than other costs such as transport and accommodation for weekend events, and low entry fees in the absence of sponsorship will reduce the perceived prize funds which may deter the better players. Oh, and find someone who can drive/hire a van and transport the tables both ways.

Note that if 10x Garlando tables are not enough, ChampFoos can provide additional Garlando tables (2x Master Champions and several World Champions) at a fraction of the commercial hire costs (£30 per table or 4 for £100), and also up to 6x Bonzinis. These are stored about 50 metres from the BFA lock-up, and can be transported in the same van as the BFA tables.

On the Garlando vs Leonhart question, both have advantages and disadvantages. The Leos are easier to set-up (just remove from the boxes and bolt on the legs and goal surrounds), the Garlandos take around 40 person-minutes to set up but the boxes are smaller and you can fit more tables in a van. The BFA Garlandos were refurbished last year with new rubbers and score counters etc, but are now 6 years old, whereas the Leos are newer, better cosmetically and have lower 'mileage'.

The BFA has done everything it can to minimise the financial liabilities of organisers in the event of low turnouts, but we are all volunteers with lives and/or jobs and cannot do everything at once. I'm currently organising around 3-4 small local tournaments a month around the North West, with 188x players having competed to date, which would make it impossible to organise a major event as something has to give (I'm also running 3x businesses), which is why I've stopped doing major tournaments, at least for the next year or so. The Liverpool Open could happen again next year (the venue is keen) if someone else can step in and organise it. Because the number of active organisers has declined, those that remained have simply been burned out by the added pressure. We (as in all of us) need players and clubs to step forward and become the next generation of organisers and activists. You are the BFA!!!

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Re: New BFA Table Scheme

Post by Mase » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:53 pm

Messiah wrote:Mase - perhaps you could start by outlining what has been tried over the last 5 years.

There has been laudable activity by JP on a commercial footing in London, and by Boris in the North West, but I am not sure what if any assistance the BFA has given to these.

For BFA-led actions, there has been the BFA league which has had moments of enthusiasm, but also seems to have some apathy.

Will has done a grand job of posting on facebook apparently (but as I don't have a facebook account I have no idea how visible that is), and I would question how many extra games of table football this has led to being played in local venues.

Other than these, what has actually been done to develop the grass roots game?
Hi Dan,

Thank you for this. Please excuse my late reply I have been away getting married and on honeymoon.

I will certainly echo the sentiments and comments regarding the great work of JP and Boris to do great things in the world of foosball.

I have only recently returned to the committee and wasn't on it for much of the five years so cannot give a full view of what was done, however I can say that under the Chairmanship of Steve there was a huge piece of work undertaken to sort out the lack of organisation in the membership structure. This really has been beneficial to the BFA and in turn has helped collate contact details to be able to communicate more effectively (less than 15% of players in last 3 years are active on the forum).

Joe and Boris in the tenures both tried initiatives (exact details they can help you with but needless to say they would have tried to make things work, no one takes on a position to do it badly) but I think what is often forgotten by many people is that the BFA is volunteers and always has been, JP who has accomplished a great deal "does foos for a living" so naturally has a lot more time and is remunerated as such (as he should be for the good work he does).

The current committee have found themselves in quite an odd position, we now have money and tables (22 of them) and have no longer got the personnel to run events, this is an issue as we need to run events for our members as well as look at generating a beginner scene.

I understand the frustration of yourselves and others but what we need is people saying what time they have to help, what they can give. Looking to pick apart the last five years take time up when we could be working on future projects. The one thing we have had much of is people asking what more is being done, what we have had very little of is people saying "what can I do"?

Currently we are in need of people in the regions to help run small local events. The BFA are willing to give a table or two to a local promoter to help with the players that are looking for more foos locally. The German challenger tour (German scene run across two bodies by five fully paid staff) is run with 3-4 small one day events in many cities and regions. The one day events have no prize money, very small entry fees which the promoter organizer gets to keep and is usually just an OS and OD run on a swiss format.

If we could find volunteers to help with this we can provide tables, some money to help organise and push players that persons way.

One of the big peices of work I took on and have had in place for the last 19 weeks was to do a deal with Home Leisure Direct (our current retail partner) to get a copy of the personal details of each person that buys a new table (they can opt in or out of that share), we have the locations of these players. The new players get a welcome pack from the BFA. As such we have our existing and old players that could play at local tournaments, we have players we can communicate with through facebook and twitter and now we have 300+ people who have purchased a table and are interested in playing.

Along with trying to get a regional series of events going "Challenger Tour" we are also trying to get the uni scene going again.

I am very lucky to have such an incredibly supportive and able committee, Steve Lyall has taken on much of the Uni work and now I am back I will be catching up with Steve to keep moving on what I need to deliver. The rest of the committee are amazing with Emily Knox and Jody Walding being genuine contributors and not just observers.

BUT what I need is more people willing to give time, to work in their region to bring on and cultivate interest, I believe two regional events would be . We cannot operate regional events with out the help. Alternatively if you can find someone who would like to pay for us to have two fully paid staff that would suffice :)

In short we need help with
- people running national events
- people running 1-3 table regional events

We have had two huge loses this year, Alex Millington Martston and David Oates. Both have other demands on their time and have been amazing servants to the sport. We need people to step forward and help with this gap fill.

I hope my ramblings are an adequate answer and show where we are in short. I intend during the festive periods to cover off what has happened in 2014 and what we are looking to do in 2015. But as above people helping with regional events is the biggest thing I need.


Kind regards,


Ben Mason

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