STUDENTS: National University Championship: CALL FOR OPINION

Tournament announcements + Results + Match Reports
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Mase
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Post by Mase » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:30 pm

Students by their very nature are lazy, if they knew they were getting free stuff and what they could stand to win then and were given train times and bus route (ie national express) they may well do it.

Mase

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jhk
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Post by jhk » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:40 pm

Boris wrote:I do agree that a university 'tour' would be more effective in raising the profile generally, both of the game and the sponsor.  A hire-van with two players and four tables could do it, one for ECs and the others for the uni championship, staying in travelodges/travel inns and doing a different uni each day/evening.  Winners could then get travel costs paid to attend the National Championships.

There are 47 Universities with student populations over 20000, 20 in the 15-20k range, and 28 in the 10-15k range.   Getting round all 95 would take about 6 months, doing 4 evenings a week on average.  It would need a full-time admin and professional PR.  Taking everything into account, it could probably be done for about £1200 per uni (allowing £1k pw for retaining a PR company and £400 per uni prize package) or £600 per uni without retained PR or prize packages, based on 3-4 'gigs' per week and people being employed on fixed-term contracts to do the job.
I think this would be outside the scope of what Jon is organising, but a nice idea in theory.
Though I doubt there will be many sponsors that would be interested in a "Uni Table Football Tour" - it'd probably be more beneficial for them do a Uni tour themselves, promoting themselves in their own presentations (as many big companies do) and focus on graduate recruitment, rather than divide their resources on table football.
Of course, regardless of my negative on-look, if somebody indeed gets a Uni Tour off the ground it'll be excellent!!!

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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:42 pm

Another thing I forgot :P

Happy to pretend to be an expert if you need me and I can make it :D
.

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Post by jhk » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:44 pm

The "Chaz Allen Special II" will be on show that day  :wink:
It's a MUST see!

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Post by Shovo » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:26 pm

I think players will be more likely to come from further afield if cash prizes can be advertised in advance. If players could pre-register online, it might be an idea to try and put on transport from unis where there is the most demand.

Boris wrote:There are 47 Universities with student populations over 20000, 20 in the 15-20k range, and 28 in the 10-15k range.   Getting round all 95 would take about 6 months, doing 4 evenings a week on average.  It would need a full-time admin and professional PR.  Taking everything into account, it could probably be done for about £1200 per uni (allowing £1k pw for retaining a PR company and £400 per uni prize package) or £600 per uni without retained PR or prize packages, based on 3-4 'gigs' per week and people being employed on fixed-term contracts to do the job.
What are you going on about Boris!

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Post by Craig » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:22 pm

I think you'd have to exclude the players that are already ranked.

Getting people to travel a long way to be thrashed by someone calling himself a "pro" will not give positive memories of the day.

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Post by jhk » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:32 pm

Craig wrote:I think you'd have to exclude the players that are already ranked.

Getting people to travel a long way to be thrashed by someone calling himself a "pro" will not give positive memories of the day.
hmmm but surely not all ranked players?? the novices and amateurs should be allowed to enter.
and the SP's and above who comes, for example because they are part of their Uni club, could be those 'experts' demonstrating and giving advice. but they should be able to take part in the Uni Cup (and a DYP if there is one?).

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Oatsey
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Uni event

Post by Oatsey » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:47 pm

This obviously is a chance not to be passed up . Well done to Jon for getting the opportunnity/.

few things to consider

how many tables will you have and what type this determines the number of people you can have and events etc if its all over in one day. Are you using sponsos cash to buy tables (if so that is great and I suggest Boris has no need for Galando table sponsors anymore and the BFA keep the tables afterwards! they could even be branded with the sponsors name potentially for more cash. ) However if this would effectively use up most of the cash this is not viable.

My view is it is essential to keep the sponsor happy and to promote the game simoultaneously so

1. Free foos pack consisting of a FOOs T shirt with BFA and ITSF web address on plus snappy slogan , a Foos DVD either the BFA one I have or the inside foos promotional one whcih is more professional featuring the 2004 worlds final etc I also have may be ok. Two wraps and a decent ball
sounds good to me. Happy to help with this in terms of costings and production etc if you like .

2.  Expert challenges like beat the pros's and win £50 first to seven goals would be brilliant only non ranked players can enter that though . Properly dressed players as has been said e.g. in GB KIT. Total budget forthis say £100 i. two defeats.

3. Some clinics showing shots etc

4. Foos videos showing on a large screen to create atmosphere e.g. Foosball world cup one

5. If a high turn out is required then ranking players need to be able to come so one event for them is a must as there are a hell of a lot in oxford, cambridge ad warwick! however maybe not pro's and above who could do the expert challenge and skills and be paid by keeping the £100 if they do not lose it! hence giving real incentive!

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Post by PaulM » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:06 am

My I first say ..............Well done Jon

I believe that the Female players are a Must. Not an add-on.

Free Entry - Fantastic..

The Transport Ideas are great. Free Shuttle bus from local Train and Bus Stations.

Open Doubles / Singles / Mixed Doubles .   No more.
Don't give the impression of Pro/Rookie events, you will only alienate people. Therefore, it would very difficult to limit entry, and exclude BFA recognised players.

Winners get a trip to Las Vegas, which just happens to be at the time of a Big Table Football event. Push the Trip as the Prize, not the Table Footie.

Strict limitation to Students/ Student Union card as proof. You may need to limit the amount of students from each university. Contact the Student Unions and issue them an allocation of passes, to be used at their discretion. This would create the need for qualifying competitions to get entry. All organised locally and not the responsibilty of the main organiser/sponsor. To leave it as a turn up and play event, could prove a big mistake. When Brighouse used to run their events back in the 70's, it was based around their Tables only. If a College/School/University had a Brighouse table, you were allowed to enter a Doubles and singles team per Table. If you had 3 tables, 3 teams. Many players used to turn up, in the hope that the organisers would allow them to play. If you did not have the offical entry form, from the University you could not play. This had to be done due to the large numbers that attended. As this does not appear to be 'Table Specific', it would be open to all. Expect large numbers.

If the Sponsor is intending to run an event in the next 6 months, is this enough lead in time? Wont it clash with some relevant and important Academic events....like Exams? As much advanced warning of the Competition Dates. During Term time is a given, but which term? October/November maybe? Is this a one- off, or can we see an Annual Event here?

What do the Sponsors want from this event? They must have a clear vision of what they want to get from it. It is important not impose to many requirements on them. They need to know its their event, even though it suits our purpose.

Best of Luck. If you need Refs, Runners, General Dogs Bodies. No problem.

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Post by shovie » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:43 am

I think you'd have to exclude the players that are already ranked.

Getting people to travel a long way to be thrashed by someone calling himself a "pro" will not give positive memories of the day.
:?

Craig
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Post by Craig » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:29 am

Sorry Alex...   :lol:

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Post by The Doctor » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:04 am

The problem with banning good players from the competition is that the 'winners' would not actually be the best student players - and everyone would know this! The tournament has to do what it says on the tin.

Reward good n00bs (preferably non-tournament players - that is, who have NEVER played in a BFA tourney - otherwise, it would seem to true novices that the in-crowd have scooped up all the prizes) with a (decent) sub-prize of some kind.

Have a Nations Cup-style team event between university teams too, to encourage groups of students to come down.
Last edited by The Doctor on Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

zhern
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Post by zhern » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:05 am

Hi there,

Expect a team from Imperial College London if it will be held on a suitable date.  However, I am not sure whether we will be able to provide sufficient numbers for the University Cup as the club was very inactive last term.Is this event confirmed? I would like to promote it during the union clubs and societies fair.
Last edited by zhern on Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mogwai
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Post by Mogwai » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:57 am

I agree you can't ban the good students just because they are good. I expect the sponsors would not be happy with us restricting turnout (especially a big contingents from Oxbridge), especially if they can publicise it with top UK players.

This is why I suggest n00b friendly formats (see my above post) and absolutely no DE or swiss! I think we have the know how to run a good, fun event. If Jon has secured sponsorship and venue then that is the hardest part over.

The next big challenge is to convince players from a wide range of unis to come. Offering good stuff on the day is not enough, its getting them over the travel hurdle. A free minibus from station to venue is a good idea, securing some parking would also be good.

I would hope you could work together with WTF and OUTFC to get minibuses sorted, which should up turnout. I'm sure how big a budget you have but subsidising travel of a couple of representatives from each uni (maybe the uni champions or highest unranked paring) could be a way to get more unis involved.

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Post by Teeb » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:44 pm

Mogwai wrote:This is why I suggest n00b friendly formats (see my above post) and absolutely no DE or swiss! I think we have the know how to run a good, fun event. If Jon has secured sponsorship and venue then that is the hardest part over.
This.

Groups + SE is the easiest to understand and so most n00b friendly. This is the format we have used at past freshers tournament for this reason.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:52 pm

How many players would you need from each university to enter the University Cup? i really would want to get a Liverpool team going, but numbers are very low.

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Post by jhk » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:37 pm

evertonian wrote:How many players would you need from each university to enter the University Cup? i really would want to get a Liverpool team going, but numbers are very low.
Yeh, it might be a problem for Unis with only a few people.
I would think a team of 4-6 would be best (and Unis with more than 4-6 people can enter more teams I, II, etc).
The match format could be similar to the BFA National League style - but with number of games reduced to save time (say max 4 doubles and 4 singles). Jon?

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Boris
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Post by Boris » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:32 pm

I liked the suggestion which would ban SPs and above from individual events but allow them to compete in the Uni Cup.

Ideally team sizes would be as with ITSF Nation Cup events - 6 men plus 2 women plus 2 reserves - which would force unisocs to do more for their women players.  If a team had no women it would forfeit 2 matches, with the match format as per ITSF competitions.  This should also boost turnout from the smaller unis in order to make up a full team, and for the individual womens events.

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Post by jhk » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:12 pm

Boris wrote:I liked the suggestion which would ban SPs and above from individual events but allow them to compete in the Uni Cup.

Ideally team sizes would be as with ITSF Nation Cup events - 6 men plus 2 women plus 2 reserves - which would force unisocs to do more for their women players.  If a team had no women it would forfeit 2 matches, with the match format as per ITSF competitions.  This should also boost turnout from the smaller unis in order to make up a full team, and for the individual womens events.
That could be very ideal.
However there would be no need for reserves.

One thing also important is giving an option to field between 4 to 6 players - this would add the much needed flexibility for the smaller and larger Uni teams. But then let's say a Uni has 10 players in total, then it should be compulsory for them to field 6 for their 1st team and the remaning 4 for the 2nd.

As regards to Women - yes, it'd be good to encourage recruitment of women, but it's still very difficult. If every Uni team had to field at least 2 women, I think there could be quite a few matches where points are forfeited or where there are simply no women's matches. In addition, presuming some of the more established and larger Uni socs (e.g. Oxford, Cambridge, Warwick) are more likely to be successful in recruiting women, they might be at an advantageous position, obtaining extra points for succeeding in their recruitment whereas smaller socs have not.

I think it'd be better if there was a separate Women's Uni team competition, but for a team size flexible between 3 to 4 say (or we can fix it at 2).

It'll be best for seeded straight SE (or if time allows then maybe DE) for all Uni Cup events.

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Post by jhk » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:27 pm

Mogwai wrote:I agree you can't ban the good students just because they are good. I expect the sponsors would not be happy with us restricting turnout (especially a big contingents from Oxbridge), especially if they can publicise it with top UK players.
Even if we ban SP+ players from the main "open" event, I think most of those SP+ players will still attend the tournament. C'mon; free food, sofas, PS2s, wraps, balls and Britfoos t-shirts labelled "I've been ITSFed" or summat - what more do you want?  :lol:

Meh, but seriously,
majority of student SP+ players are from Warwick and Oxbridge, and they usually hold executive positions in their respective societies. It'll be them who let their members know about the tournament and it'll be them organising the trip down to Cambridge - so it's very likely they'll pop along with the rest of the Uni members.
Plus they will be wanting to give advice, look after and support their members throughout the tournament, and if they are permitted to represent their Uni team in the Uni Cup competition, it'll be a big incentive to come!
Furthermore, I'm sure many student SP+ will be happy to come and possibly aid in the smooth running of the tournament, whether it be behind the desks or on the tables demonstrating skills and rules or refereeing matches. So they won't have the prospect of standing around doing nothing for hours.
On an executive member's point of view, they'll want to see how the tournament goes and see if it's something their society can think about (especially for new socs who have never run Uni tournaments, who can use the idea to run their internal ones or even a national one!), and possibly make links with other Uni socs - an essential step in promoting Uni matches across Britain.

Okay - maybe this won't work at all for SP+ students who are unable to organise any Uni team - but I don't think there are many students, who are SP+ and have no friends at Uni wanting to team up :wink: . I think the benefits of many newbies enjoying an event perfectly suited to them outweighs those of a few pros.
And as regards whether the winner is really a UK student champion or not - I don't think that's still important enough to outweigh the benefit of newbies enjoying the event.
And I expect that explaining all the reasons above should keep the sponsor happy about the restriction.

Etc etc... I'm blabbing on.
In conclusion, I'm for having the main singles and doubles tournament (Groups + SE) for students Amateur and under, whereas everyone can participate in the Uni Cup events.
If time allows and there are some 'spare' tables, then maybe you could have the SP+ students playing their own stuff in the corner whilst the main tournament is running.

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