STUDENTS: National University Championship: CALL FOR OPINION

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:36 pm

The answer is very simple non of the SP stuff needs to be thought through.

Groups of 6-8  top half go through to CUP. Bottom half through to PLATE. That way everyone is happy. If you like winner of CUP can play winner of PLATE for overall champion.

Mase

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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:33 pm

The Doctor wrote:The problem with banning good players from the competition is that the 'winners' would not actually be the best student players - and everyone would know this! The tournament has to do what it says on the tin.
Reckon it should be anyone with a valid student card :)
.

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jhk
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Post by jhk » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:37 pm

Mase wrote:The answer is very simple non of the SP stuff needs to be thought through.

Groups of 6-8  top half go through to CUP. Bottom half through to PLATE. That way everyone is happy. If you like winner of CUP can play winner of PLATE for overall champion.

Mase
Hmm, yeah it is indeed a simple solution.

But the point I had in mind was newbies being 'thrashed' in groups and not enjoying the game as much as they would have done if the standards in the groups were more similar.
There is a lot of joy and adrenalin in the group stage performaces, wondering how high you can come in it and qualify for THE Knockout. Furthermore, group stages are the beginnings of the tournament and I think it is very important for those newbies to have a 'good start' to the tournament, to secure a continued, enthusiastic participation till the end of the tournament.
I don't think having a Plate will provide as much enjoyment to the newbies as above. Very likely the newbies will be 'thrashed', end up in the bottom half of the group - there isn't as much excitement. Plus some of them might go into 'admitting inferior skills' mode and not put as much effort into doing well at the group stage, because they are guaranteed their Plate.

In addition I'm not sure if time/table-count contraints permit there to be two separate knockout stages (part of the reason that a DE isn't on our list).

I think it'll be much better for the newbies and amateurs to have a proper tournament and knockout designated to them, rather than providing a side-gate into a less prestigious knockout.

I do recognise that the premise of my argument is that the primary aim of the tournament is to encourage student newbies to play competitive foosball. If Jon (and other organisors & sponsor) considers it equally important that student SP+ should have the chance to play, then by all means Mase's simple solution could be quite effective.

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Boris
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Post by Boris » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:41 pm

If it is a SE knockout, there is time to run an extra round of matches, so the top 4 (e.g. from a group of 7) could qualify for the KO stage, rather than just the top 2 which penalises players in a 'group of death' - that way vaguely talented n00bs could stand a chance of making (say) the last 32 or 64.

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:51 pm

Jee Ha and Boris, why make things complicated.

The objective is to please the sponsors by getting more popel there and them playing foos.

A group of 7 top 4 go to cup bottom 3 to plate is easiest way by far. You guys are over thinking a VERY simple problem. Boris, please stop thinking about this and update the Tornado rankings  8)  we dont give a monkeys about the germans btw.

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Post by shovie » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:12 pm

The sponsors obv want as many students there as they can get, for this reason I doubt they would want any restrictions on entries.

As transparent as you like I know but if I wasn't me you'd agree I'd have a point!

Ubern00bs from other Unis won't know they're likely get their arse whooped, and even regular tournament-going n00bs will turn up if the prize fund goes deep, not to mention the day out and the free stuff.

No one is going to agree with me are they?

Was worth a shot.

Yours,

The highest ranked Student in the UK  :wink:

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Messiah
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Post by Messiah » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:43 pm

I agree with Alex.

BTW apparently I'm entitled to an NUS card, so presumably I should be allowed to attend.....
Still going....

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Jonathan May
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Post by Jonathan May » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:08 pm

Huge thank you for all opinions - keep them coming and I'll discuss them all with the sponsor and confirm the arrangements as soon as possible. If you have outlandish or unusual suggestions please make them - we have a real opportunity to try something a little different here.

Jonathan

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Mogwai
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Post by Mogwai » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:42 am

Just out of interest do we have a list of students who are SP and above (or even amateur and above).

I think Mase's idea is fine. I don't think newbies mind getting trashed if it is by someone amazing and hopefully there will be plenty of other n00bs in the group to give them a good game. In an event like this I think all SP players and above have a duty to play in a non-anal way against these players! Making goal difference not count in the seeding for the KO helps this and making sure top 4 or so go through also helps the good players to relax a little in the groups.

Also I'm not worried about middle of the road players effectively playing crap to get into the plate, make sure there is no prize money for it and you won't have this problem.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:59 am

Groups need to be large and seeded. When i was just starting out i wanted the odd game against someone amazing (and i still do at tournaments) where i knew i was going to get battered - but also several games against people 'at my level'. I think complete n00bs would feel the same way. This, of course, is largely dependant on turnout. The Uni's with large turnout will obviously be warwick/oxbridge etc, but these teams are packed with very good players. I will try my best to get a liverpool team going, but how many other 'new' universities will attend? I am somewhat of a rarity (i believe) to be a student tournament go-er (albeit a very new and rookie one) who goes to a uni where there is no established Foos team/society. I will be encouraging people from liverpool to go, and as soon as official dates/information are released i would be very keen to work with Jon etc and my student union to get something together. My point being that this wont really happen across UK universities on a large scale, as there is a lack of players at the majority of universities. Surely great emphasis needs to be put on informing these uni's. Maybe some of the top players could do a tour of the major UK uni's to promote the event? Very impractical i know, as you do all (largely  :lol: ) have lives, and can't be expected to travel the country just to promote. If the sponsors have real interest in this event, would they be willing to do a tour themselves to encourage Uni's to attend? All they'd need is a few decent tables, one or two half decent players, and plenty of free stuff/a prime location in Uni buildings etc to get people attentions - and hopefully get a few interested enough to travel down. Of course the focus should be in the midlands/east of the country, i.e those close (ish) to Cambridge, as the shorter the travel distance, the more likely new people are to attend. Hope that all makes sense  :lol:

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Post by sparky » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:48 am

A thought about increasing turnout - a lot of students who are now regular tournament goers started playing in school, normally with a group of other people who probably haven't played much because they go to a university without a big foos society. If these people can get in touch with their 6th form foos buddies, this would be perfectly suited to them and would probably increase turnout quite a lot. I know a lot of people from school who didn't want to come all the way to Warwick (despite my generous offer of floorspace) and then pay £10 or more to get (probably) beaten soundly, whereas free entry and the possibility of assisted transport would sweeten the deal considerably, and most likely hook several more players who could then start their own societies/clubs.

I also think the cup/plate competition is the best way to keep non-tournament players happy if the events aren't to have restricted entry.

Luke

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jhk
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Post by jhk » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:06 pm

sparky wrote:A thought about increasing turnout - a lot of students who are now regular tournament goers started playing in school, normally with a group of other people who probably haven't played much because they go to a university without a big foos society. If these people can get in touch with their 6th form foos buddies, this would be perfectly suited to them and would probably increase turnout quite a lot.
Bang on. Most of the people I see playing foos at Uni are the ones who have played at 6th form. I'd better inform my 6th form foos mates.

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Bundy Volume 1
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Post by Bundy Volume 1 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:25 pm

non of the guys i used to play with at 6th form are at university, thus are no longer students......some what of a problem.

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Rhys
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Post by Rhys » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:51 pm

I'm just about to enrol with the Open University.

See you there.

Cheers,
Rob Atha

PS Well done Jon this is fantastic and personally I think all non-Open University students should be allowed to enter.
London Foos: http://www.britfoos.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=47
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Post by Steviola » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:47 pm

Allow SP's and above to enter otherwise that'll be annoying.
shovie wrote:No one is going to agree with me are they?
I think half of Warwick/handful of Oxford students will.

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Post by fool_on_the_hill » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:44 am

Mase wrote:A group of 7 top 4 go to cup bottom 3 to plate is easiest way by far. You guys are over thinking a VERY simple problem. Boris, please stop thinking about this and update the Tornado rankings  8)  we dont give a monkeys about the germans btw.
I think you have the right idea, but it would be best to have some overlap: With a group of six or seven (incidentally, groups of seven are usually best avoided) you could have the top four going through to the cup and the bottom four going through to the plate, so some teams will be in both competitions. This avoids situations like people throwing their last group game to stay in the plate, or having some of the best n00b teams scraping through to the cup then ending up going home very early. The overlap shouldn't cause timing issues because almost all of the teams that are in both competitions should get knocked out of the cup by top seeds very quickly.

Also, well done to Jon for organising this, it sounds fantastic.

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Mase
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Post by Mase » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:12 am

Im enjoying people agreeing with me.

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leaks
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Post by leaks » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:33 am

Don't get used to it ;)

This sounds awesome Jon. I remember a table vendor doing a uni tour back in 2003 that stopped off at Warwick while I was there. They had 2 or 3 types of table (think garlando, poss bonzini and one other I didnt recognise) with 2 or 3 tables of each type. Entry was free. They ran one mini competition and then the main event. Both competitions were doubles based.
The mini comp. involved you waiting with your partner on any table you wanted and playing a first to 1 goal winner stays on format! Every time you scrored, you'd notch it down on paper at the end of the table and play your next opponents. If you went off you just waited your turn to get back on again, or could move to another table and play. At the end of a certain amount of time they took in the sheets from all tables and totalled up each teams number of goals. The winners got branded caps and tshirts I believe. Although the first to 1 thing sounds ridiculous, it actually worked quite well as a warm up and meant if you got knocked off you could get back on the table pretty quickly.
The main competition was a World Cup style affair (in fact this competition was called the Table Football World Cup) with groups and an SE playoff (if I remember correctly). Can't remember the formats - possibly first to 10 or best of 3. The top prize (which Im pleased to say myself and my mate won :) ) was a 24 crate for each of us and a trophy each. The 2nd and third prizes were, if I remember, more branded tshirts and caps, possibly some smaller crates of beer and probably trophies.
The event was really good fun and because it was free ppl turned up and played simply because they liked the game and had a free afternoon. The number of ppl staying to watch the final was surprising, with the table completely surrounded, so obviously the enthusiasm for the game was there. Even though the crate of beer each wasn't a massive prize, the free entry and the fact that you might get something for nothing was enough to draw in, Id say, 32 teams for the event.
Anyway, just thought Id recount a story of a similar event which I would deem a success. Ill also mention that there was no extra entertainment laid on - it was just an area separated for the foos tables near the union bar, no extras tvs/sofas/etc. bar what was already there. The only extra effort they had made was to hang a bunch of flags up to show it was a world cup ;)

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Chaz
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Post by Chaz » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:31 am

Few ideas you might like:

   Show table - a couple of pros in an area easy to watch
   Master Class - Let people ask pros to demonstrate / aid n00bs
   Mini Pro-Am DYP - let some of the players play with some pros (dunno quite how this one would work)

Its nice to watch impressive foos e.g. slingshots, aerials, really quick / hard passing / shooting.
.

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jhk
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Post by jhk » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:35 am

Chaz wrote:Few ideas you might like:

   Show table - a Chaz in an area easy to watch
   Master Class - Let people ask Chaz to demonstrate / aid n00bs
   Mini Pro-Am DYP - let some of the players play with Chaz (dunno quite how this one would work)

Its nice to watch my impressive foos e.g. slingshots, aerials, really quick / hard passing / shooting.
:wink:

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